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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Okay. but so is their source material. And if this is suppose to decrease our enjoyment of these films, we must also do this with all the James Bond films, Monster movies, especially Godzilla, horror movies, action cop films...I could go on.
    The notion that if a film isn't socially relevant and "artistically pure" it is somehow not worthwhile is nonsense.
    This basically sums it all up.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean it kind of did?

    Here is a legit question I have. Is all of this hate from "Real" writers and directors a sign of the times? By that I mean is it because the special effects have gotten so massive and the over use of CGI effects?

    I dont remember hearing this same kind of talk and hate for all the pop corn blow em ups back in the 80's and 90's. Even the westerns which were pretty much all written the same in the old days got no real hate.

    So why the focus on these types of action movies now?
    I think its because of the success of the MCU. Even in the modern era, it's still huge that a franchise can produce a pair (Infinity War and Endgame) of billion dollar grossing movies.

    And unlike the Transformers movies that flamed out, the MCU has been well received by pretty much everyone.

    All this being said, I agree 100% that the hate MCU is getting from some quarters is pretty strange. I know some turned up their noses at horror and sci-fi movies back in the day but I'm not sure it was from film makers back in the day. I mean, some of these guys completely lack self-awareness like James Mangold that was "trying" to criticize the MCU when he did the SAME EXACT THING when working on the Wolverine movies at Fox. Even Villeneuve (who's one of the my favorite film makers) is working within the "machine" to produce massive blockbuster adaptations and sequels, he's very much a player in the Hollywood blockbuster game which the MCU belongs to.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean it kind of did?

    Here is a legit question I have. Is all of this hate from "Real" writers and directors a sign of the times? By that I mean is it because the special effects have gotten so massive and the over use of CGI effects?

    I dont remember hearing this same kind of talk and hate for all the pop corn blow em ups back in the 80's and 90's. Even the westerns which were pretty much all written the same in the old days got no real hate.

    So why the focus on these types of action movies now?
    Well you have to take into account the internet wasn't a thing back then. So even if those opinions existed before, you would hear about them a lot less.

    Also, the MCU has been the undisputed champion at the Box Office for over a decade. That's something that has never happened before and people always want to take a "shot" at the top dog.

  4. #19
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    I sort of said something similar about the copy and paste style like two months back.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...Movie-Director

    So already mentioned it here on this thread when I said, it is very hard to tell how good and MCU director is because of how all the same their movies are or in other words, copy and paste, however Denis the right professional term is plagiarism. Copy and pasting sounds kind of generic to use as a critique. Though it is nice that a director like him shares my own pov as it is very obvious the style of marvel.

    Denis has the right to say whatever he wants, his opinions are not rare anymore, it's almost like a passage now for some of these film makers.lol but I hope he puts his money where he mouth is with Dune as he has no idea what he is messing with and the backlash that may come to him, He will soon be apologising like that other actor from Blade that called Black Widow a garbage movie.

    Denis is rising as a major player in hollywood thanks to film like Blade Runner 2049 and Arrival that were amazing film work but he is not yet on the level of Cameron or Scorsese that he can remain immune to any backlash.

    I hope Dune delivers and does hold more than its own against Eternals, it's box office competitor that is ironically a Marvel film, because that movie is going to be a hit and will cut big into Dune's market audience, however artistically Dune should have the farer edge as long as MCU is just sticking to their formula with Eternals.

    Did not even know he directed Prisoners. Really good movie and one of the most underrated Hugh Jackman films. If anyone has not seen it, check it out before they draw any final conclusion of Denis based on his position of marvel films.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-19-2021 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean it kind of did?

    Here is a legit question I have. Is all of this hate from "Real" writers and directors a sign of the times? By that I mean is it because the special effects have gotten so massive and the over use of CGI effects?

    I dont remember hearing this same kind of talk and hate for all the pop corn blow em ups back in the 80's and 90's. Even the westerns which were pretty much all written the same in the old days got no real hate.

    So why the focus on these types of action movies now?
    All the new breed film makers of the 60s and 70s were a reaction to the "formula" studio output that came before. As was the French New Wave. I actually think it's good that these film makers see them and say, I want to do something different. But i have always liked both the more serious or different kind of film and the pop corn blow em ups.

    Also, just like Scorsese, I do not take what he says about the MCU into account when watching one of his films. His opinion of other films is immaterial to how well he makes one.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 09-19-2021 at 10:16 AM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Well you have to take into account the internet wasn't a thing back then. So even if those opinions existed before, you would hear about them a lot less.

    Also, the MCU has been the undisputed champion at the Box Office for over a decade. That's something that has never happened before and people always want to take a "shot" at the top dog.
    Yeah, that's what it comes down to.

    EDIT: It also seems that these film makers tend to make these comments when they have movies coming out. Same thing Dorff did with those very stupid comments about Scarlet Johansson.
    Last edited by Username taken; 09-19-2021 at 10:18 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormel View Post
    I don't think Villeneuve would give Fast & Furious a pass and crap over the MCU. What he was saying to Premiere in an earlier interview in French is, and i'm paraphrasing: "the Marvel movies are made in the same mold. Different directors can add their own colour to it, but they're all rolling off the same assembly line. That does not take away from the movies themselves, but they're formulaic."
    Fast and Furious is not made in the same boat as MCU even if their movies have the same result. Pop corn summer action fun. Additionally Justin Lin from fast and furious is a good director and I will put more faith in him than any other directing in the MCU because I know his films personally. His fast and furious films were personal and he did good on star trek beyond, maybe even more than JJ Abrams Star Trek Into Darkness. Lin is the best fast and furious director and would be good for marvel if Feige will ease off and not take the control.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    It's hilarious that he called Marvel fans zombies. He knows that Marvel fans have been taking pride in that since....forever.

    “The problem is that we are in front of too many Marvel movies that are nothing more than a ‘cut and paste’ of others,” the 53-year-old “Sicario” director told the outlet. “Perhaps these types of movies have turned us into zombies a bit.”

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/17/dune-d...-marvel-films/
    Yikes, calling people Zombies. I am surprised the media has not gaslighted this shit and he has not apologised.

    Calling people zombies seem harsh and could turn off some people, now that been said I get what he may be implying though I will not use that term zombies. you got to admit MCU movies has made some people think in a one way only track that unless everything has a connection with movies, the movie does not matter or is not important.

    We are even seeing now marvel taking it to the new limits by connecting the Sony and perhaps Fox marvel characters , bringing them all to the MCU, if we still count Evan Peters who mostly played the X-MEN Quicksilver in Wandavision.

    So yeah, I get what he is saying and also when you just use the same film making formula for all your films and then mask it with cgi, it is easy to get into people's head and make them stay on one tune, because it is the same thing playing all over again every time, all the time.

    So I get what he saying as a film maker but would have wished he not call people zombies because the first thing about that, is, you are insulting people and in return you turn off people with an insult first before they listen to anything further you have to say.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-19-2021 at 10:25 AM.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    So already mentioned it here on this thread when I said, it is very hard to tell how good and MCU director is because of how all the same their movies are or in other words, copy and paste, however Denis the right professional term is plagiarism. Copy and pasting sounds kind of generic to use as a critique. Though it is nice that a director like him shares my own pov as it is very obvious the style of marvel.

    .
    Beyond the fact that you have repeatedly been shown that the MCU movies are not "all the same", there is no definition of plagiarism that can even remotely apply to the MCU movies.
    What's more, if someone were to accuse one of the Marvel directors of plagiarism in a published space, that would be grounds for a libel lawsuit.
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  9. #24
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    To be honest, I see this kind of thing as coming from two areas - on the positive end, a genuinely greater interest in original or obscure material, and on the negative end, maybe some light denial and insecurity about where one’s work falls on the scale of “art’s impact on culture.”

    I mean, the old argument about original material versus formula has been going on since the late Bronze Age/early Iron Age, at minimum. For every person who tries to create something totally new and experiment with art, there’s someone looking at what worked before and seeking to emulate or perfect it.

    Villeneuve, though might share some sentiments with other visual masters like himself who might not like the implication that the broader culture is more interested in competent and quality narrative than visual spectacle and originality, and in enough of a favoritism that even stupendous visuals and decent originality just aren’t going to matter to an audience as much as a competent story.
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Have you ever seen that South Park episode where people were so pretentious they loved smelling their own farts? Villeneuve come off as one of those guys.

  11. #26
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    As Mickey Spillane said, most people prefer salted peanuts to caviar.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean it kind of did?

    Here is a legit question I have. Is all of this hate from "Real" writers and directors a sign of the times? By that I mean is it because the special effects have gotten so massive and the over use of CGI effects?

    I dont remember hearing this same kind of talk and hate for all the pop corn blow em ups back in the 80's and 90's. Even the westerns which were pretty much all written the same in the old days got no real hate.

    So why the focus on these types of action movies now?
    I do remember then. Not so much from actual directors, but tons of movie critics back then would crap on teen comedies, slasher films, and action movie blockbusters. I remember a lot guys being like, "Why don't they make movies for adults anymore?"

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I do remember then. Not so much from actual directors, but tons of movie critics back then would crap on teen comedies, slasher films, and action movie blockbusters. I remember a lot guys being like, "Why don't they make movies for adults anymore?"
    That is valid. Critics yea they did go on with some of the hate. I remember Siskel and Ebert and some of the stuff they said.

    I meant hate more coming from other actors or directors like is happening now.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    That is valid. Critics yea they did go on with some of the hate. I remember Siskel and Ebert and some of the stuff they said.

    I meant hate more coming from other actors or directors like is happening now.
    Sure. But it's like someone suggested a lot of this has to do with social media. If Twitter existed 30+ years ago, I can easily imagine someone like Woody Allen or Sidney Lumet trashing the Michael Keaton Batman movie or whatever.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Sure. But it's like someone suggested a lot of this has to do with social media. If Twitter existed 30+ years ago, I can easily imagine someone like Woody Allen or Sidney Lumet trashing the Michael Keaton Batman movie or whatever.
    But they could have easily if they wanted to. yes there was no social media but there were all kinds of Actor and Director Trade magazines, Moive entertainment magazines, these things called Newspapers. If they wanted to write up and bash the movies they could have found a way to do it. As far as I know no one really power or famous did any such thing. There were ways to communicate before social media.
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