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  1. #31
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    They are all using the same system of production and that is a cookie cutter/cut & paste system. It has to be, because these productions are huge. The way that movies are shot requires trades people each in their own unions or guilds who work according to formulas and regulations. How the lights, camera, sound are set up is according to the system established by technicians. Line producers dictate shooting schedules and locations. Because so much money is on the table--even for a $10 million movie, it's a huge investment--they operate according to rules that no auteur has any control over. If a director has an idea for how he wants to create a certain look, it's the crafts people who used their training to figure that out, according to what's been established for film production. But it's all an assembly line industrial product.

    Compare that with comic books. One individual can create and publish a comic book from start to finish. Even for big publishers, most of the work on a comic book is done by less than ten people. So if someone has a creative idea that breaks all the rules--there's little to stop them. It's not going to cost a fortune and that one person can do it all on their lonesome. Even a small budget movie requires the input of many people. The more labour-intensive a movie becomes, the bigger the budget--and the more money spent on the movie, the safer it has to be. Investors aren't going to throw their money away on an experiment that has no hope of being popular. Mainstream movies all have to be within a narrow scope of entertainment and not take chances.

    There have been filmmakers like Norman McLaren, who could make a movie all on his own except for the small cast he used--NEIGHBOURS (1952) had two actors, Jean-Paul Ladouceur and Grant Munro. With today's technology, there are people who can make movies at home, with their computers, without needing a cast or crew and for very little money. That's the future. I think eventually we will all be making our own movies at home, without any directors, actors or crew getting in the way.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    But they could have easily if they wanted to. yes there was no social media but there were all kinds of Actor and Director Trade magazines, Moive entertainment magazines, these things called Newspapers. If they wanted to write up and bash the movies they could have found a way to do it. As far as I know no one really power or famous did any such thing. There were ways to communicate before social media.
    True. But I still think a guy like Frank Coppola who sinks all his Godfather and Apocalypse Now money into One From The Heart witch flopped was probably resentful that something like Meatballs was a big hit despite him not saying so in the press at the time.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    That's the future. I think eventually we will all be making our own movies at home, without any directors, actors or crew getting in the way.
    I certainly hope so. There's a lot to be said for the production of art for art's sake, even amongst people who aren't artists by trade. I saw a great David Byrne quote that discusses this.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    True. But I still think a guy like Frank Coppola who sinks all his Godfather and Apocalypse Now money into One From The Heart witch flopped was probably resentful that something like Meatballs was a big hit despite him not saying so in the press at the time.
    Maybe rather then being resentful that someone made a movie that appealed to the masses maybe he should make a better movie?

    I dont like either movie. But if your movie gets beat out by Meatballs maybe the problem is not with the public but with the movie you made?
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  5. #35
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    Honestly at this point I don't mind every auteur director critiquing Marvel for their movies and at the same time them wanting to save cinema lol! They will never win this war, so they might as well dislike MCU with a passion.
    Last edited by Tofali; 09-20-2021 at 12:10 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean it kind of did?

    Here is a legit question I have. Is all of this hate from "Real" writers and directors a sign of the times? By that I mean is it because the special effects have gotten so massive and the over use of CGI effects?

    I dont remember hearing this same kind of talk and hate for all the pop corn blow em ups back in the 80's and 90's. Even the westerns which were pretty much all written the same in the old days got no real hate.

    So why the focus on these types of action movies now?
    My guess?

    In the 80's art films and Indy Films got a bigger slice of the pie. You had your Miramaxes and your Touchstones among others.

    Note that Disney owned both Miramax and Touchstone back in the day.

    Around 2010, Disney began the process of either selling or back burner-ing it's more artsy subsidiaries. In 2012, The Avengers came out and the Marvel Cinematic Universe was a concrete thing instead of a wild idea.

    Marvel has helped Disney get to the point where they don't really need an artsy division for anything other occasionally chasing Oscar's. And filmmakers like Villeneuve are pissed about it.

    So these filmmakers resent Marvel Movies because they make so much money for Disney that as things stand now Disney might never want to entertain making art films again.

    And since there are way less film studios than there used to be what with all the mergers, Disney seeming rejection of Art movies is seen as a threat by these Directors.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    My guess?

    In the 80's art films and Indy Films got a bigger slice of the pie. You had your Miramaxes and your Touchstones among others.

    Note that Disney owned both Miramax and Touchstone back in the day.

    Around 2010, Disney began the process of either selling or back burner-ing it's more artsy subsidiaries. In 2012, The Avengers came out and the Marvel Cinematic Universe was a concrete thing instead of a wild idea.

    Marvel has helped Disney get to the point where they don't really need an artsy division for anything other occasionally chasing Oscar's. And filmmakers like Villeneuve are pissed about it.

    So these filmmakers resent Marvel Movies because they make so much money for Disney that as things stand now Disney might never want to entertain making art films again.

    And since there are way less film studios than there used to be what with all the mergers, Disney seeming rejection of Art movies is seen as a threat by these Directors.
    Eh, I don't think they (directors) resent marvel at least not resent in the definition of malicious or hatred. I think what they do is resent the system of their very cooperate formula, this is a big difference. You are more likely to see for example, a director resenting Thor 1 just because it is an mcu film and yet still praising Kenneth Branagh as a film director.

  8. #38
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    Neil Blomkamp doesn't agree with Denis Villeneuve and he was very "colorful" in his response.

    https://www.cbr.com/neill-blomkamp-d...-mcu-comments/

    His words- "what a f..cking asshole".

    I'm not surprised, the whole thing about professionals slamming other professionals in the same field is actually unusual.

    t's one thing for critics to attack film makers its another for professionals to criticize other professionals, it's actually a very,very crappy thing to do.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    I love Denis Villeneuve's films, but it's hard to argue there isn't a particular formula and style to them. Of course, knowing the internet this comment was a single sentence out of a much longer interview that was taken out of context, misconstrued and blown up out of all proportion to feed the 24 hour content cycle.

  10. #40
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    I'm all for Directors talking smack about other films, it's the closest thing we have to WWE levels of conflict.

    Regardless, the Marvel movies are okay, and sometimes that's fine. Most are a solid 7/10, which is impressive in on itself.
    There's just way too many of them now that starting to become hard to keep track of. Even the Disney + shows are okay (okay, first few episodes of Wandavision were great).
    I do kind of see the point however. As I just mentioned, first half of Wandavision was actually pretty amazing, then it fell apart in the last two episodes where they had to have a villain and a big fight, story could have dealt with trauma in a way we haven't seen yet, but instead it was "You do you Scarlet, even through you did torture a Town into your roleplay..."

    I think my issue is that they play it safe too much, and right now, Marvel are in a position where they don't have to play it safe. We could do with a movie which tackles a more mature idea, heck, make a Sleepwalker movie and make it as Lynchian as possible, I'd be up for that.

    They had a good thing going with Guardians, but that was the last time I felt that they truly went weird. Eternals could be that, but that just looks boring.

    Still, I'm excited for No Way Home, I've not been this excited for a Spider-Man movie since Spider-man 3.

  11. #41
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    Reading and watching that whole interview, it comes off very differently than the linked NY Post article and the way the thread starter presented. With more of that on the NY Post.

    He is critical but not bashing anything. He just wants to show the world another voice. He presents 1 critique. The NY Post makes it seem he thinks the MCU and the fans are vapid.

    Seems a bit disingenuous.
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  12. #42
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    Really tired of these clickbait *insert director* hates MCU movies 'articles' like...cmon now, these sites need to do better.
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  13. #43
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    Its really not Disney's fault that they are making movies people want to see.

  14. #44
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    That is the biggest thing. Most of the directors that are complaining are just pissed that the studios won't throw huge piles of money at them anymore to make their risky films. Most people I know don't go to the movies unless it is the big blockbusters or action movies or the occasional comedy. If it is a drama most people would rather just watch those at home. That is just the way it is these days. I'm sorry, but most people are not going to want to watch a movie like The Irishman in a theater anymore.

  15. #45
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    It's simply that saying anything about Marvel is going to get clicks. So entertainment reporters keep at it until they can get a Marvel quote out of a subject.

    Disney is just happy if they can get through a day without anyone saying anything about China. 'Cause, god forbid you should suggest China is not the happiest place on Earth.
    "To All the Girls I've Loved Before"--Julio Iglesias
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