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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Since when did servants become "planet-level," let alone beyond?
    If we use CCC as a measurement of true Servant ability, you will get Universal. Fate CCC from the PSP game inflates the power of people like Gilgamesh to Universal scaling from Beast III because it creates the pocket universe. Though, to be fair... it's hard to gauge true servant ability, because we scaling and Nasu's interview statement. For example, we never see Planet Buster Enuma Elish, but Enuma Elish should be planet buster because Nasu said so in Fate/Stay Night Material.

    Then two years later, F/GO and CCC came, and suddenly Gilgamesh can defeat Amaterasu Tamao or at least above her, which means that Gilgamesh is actually above a Servant that at full power outside of the Universe and axis of time. Then you remember that Arcueid at full power is above Tamao, and as Arc:Earth is basically the top dog of Nasu Verse with Zelretch, which is basically Dr. Strange of Nasu Verse.

    So it's tricky, because Nasu loves to contradict herself in FGO and CCC, but logically speaking, some servants are Universal because we use scaling and some servants are never at full power because they require stronger magi to be at their maximum potential. But because the OP said that we use FGO which means that we scale from CCC because of Beasts and we have to look at Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, Mahou no Tsukai, Melty Blood, and Kara no Kyokai because Shiki... And Aoko Aozaki + Zelretch.

    Though if anyone can defeat Accelerator both current and WWIII, it's supposed to be servant Shiki Ryogi (Saber) because of Wish Granting, Mystic Eyes of Dead Perception, and Servant Stats.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    And didn't God Arjuna constantly reset the universe every few days/weeks in that one timeline, and defeating him needed your team to team up with Karna fused with Vishnu and Shiva (the only Hindu gods who God Arjuna hadn't absorbed), or something like that?

    And Ryougi Shiki in general is supposed to be the avatar of the Akashic Records, IIRC, which should be universal in terms of overall scale.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki View Post
    If we use CCC as a measurement of true Servant ability, you will get Universal. Fate CCC from the PSP game inflates the power of people like Gilgamesh to Universal scaling from Beast III because it creates the pocket universe.
    So not actually universal then. I played the Extra game, and know of the digital universe you're refering too, which is pretty darn tiny, to the size of what, a city?

    Though, to be fair... it's hard to gauge true servant ability, because we scaling and Nasu's interview statement. For example, we never see Planet Buster Enuma Elish, but Enuma Elish should be planet buster because Nasu said so in Fate/Stay Night Material.
    May I have the source please?

    [Quote]Then two years later, F/GO and CCC came, and suddenly Gilgamesh can defeat Amaterasu Tamao or at least above her, which means that Gilgamesh is actually above a Servant that at full power outside of the Universe and axis of time.[\quote]

    You mean Tamamo? The fox servant you can choose inthe game? She is never at her absolute full power. Ever. If you mean her godly counterpart Amaterasu, she wasn't at full power, not having all of her tails. And even then she only claimed that her full power could destroy thousands of planet's, not a universe. And a claim made about a power she was admits to not even being at doesn't really mean much..

    Then you remember that Arcueid at full power is above Tamao, and as Arc:Earth is basically the top dog of Nasu Verse with Zelretch, which is basically Dr. Strange of Nasu Verse.
    Well as explained above, that doesn't really mean much? And Ameratsu herself isn't a servant, a far less powerful version is, so even if Acrueid at full power is above Tamamo the servant, that doesn't mean she is even close to Ameratsu. And iirc, Nasu also mentioned Gilgamesh could beat full power Acrueid despite technically being weaker than her due to his abilities.

    So it's tricky, because Nasu loves to contradict herself in FGO and CCC, but logically speaking, some servants are Universal because we use scaling and some servants are never at full power because they require stronger magi to be at their maximum potential. But because the OP said that we use FGO which means that we scale from CCC because of Beasts and we have to look at Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, Mahou no Tsukai, Melty Blood, and Kara no Kyokai because Shiki... And Aoko Aozaki + Zelretch.
    So no actual statements, feats, or even presentation or word of god to suggest planetary level of destruction let alone even remotely close to universal then? I mean, none of what you mentioned have ever shown to be even remotely close to that level of power in any version of servant they have been here...
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  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    And didn't God Arjuna constantly reset the universe every few days/weeks in that one timeline, and defeating him needed your team to team up with Karna fused with Vishnu and Shiva (the only Hindu gods who God Arjuna hadn't absorbed), or something like that?

    And Ryougi Shiki in general is supposed to be the avatar of the Akashic Records, IIRC, which should be universal in terms of overall scale.
    How so? If he was resetting time in Extra, what would that mean? I mean it's a virtual world..
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  5. #20
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    And didn't God Arjuna constantly reset the universe every few days/weeks in that one timeline, and defeating him needed your team to team up with Karna fused with Vishnu and Shiva (the only Hindu gods who God Arjuna hadn't absorbed), or something like that?

    And Ryougi Shiki in general is supposed to be the avatar of the Akashic Records, IIRC, which should be universal in terms of overall scale.
    Thing about it is that Shiki is a glass cannon, even when her "Void" persona is in action, so anyone can take her out honestly. Nasu has even said that if she ever went up against a Servant, she would be on the defensive even in her awakened state. She's even placed below Arcueid at full power, so universal is a pretty huge leap to claim her to be at.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    How so? If he was resetting time in Extra, what would that mean? I mean it's a virtual world..
    Not Extra, Grand Order. That said, I haven't actually played Grand Order, so I don't know if the Lostbelt that God Arjuna kept rebooting is as big as a regular universe, but if it is then he's definitely on the Magic God tier by A Certain Magical Index standards.

  7. #22
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    [QUOTE=Cody;5745702]So not actually universal then. I played the Extra game, and know of the digital universe you're refering too, which is pretty darn tiny, to the size of what, a city?



    May I have the source please?

    Then two years later, F/GO and CCC came, and suddenly Gilgamesh can defeat Amaterasu Tamao or at least above her, which means that Gilgamesh is actually above a Servant that at full power outside of the Universe and axis of time.[\quote]

    You mean Tamamo? The fox servant you can choose inthe game? She is never at her absolute full power. Ever. If you mean her godly counterpart Amaterasu, she wasn't at full power, not having all of her tails. And even then she only claimed that her full power could destroy thousands of planet's, not a universe. And a claim made about a power she was admits to not even being at doesn't really mean much..



    Well as explained above, that doesn't really mean much? And Ameratsu herself isn't a servant, a far less powerful version is, so even if Acrueid at full power is above Tamamo the servant, that doesn't mean she is even close to Ameratsu. And iirc, Nasu also mentioned Gilgamesh could beat full power Acrueid despite technically being weaker than her due to his abilities.



    So no actual statements, feats, or even presentation or word of god to suggest planetary level of destruction let alone even remotely close to universal then? I mean, none of what you mentioned have ever shown to be even remotely close to that level of power in any version of servant they have been here...
    The spiraling wind engulfed more air, generating a small tornado.
    The tornado overlapped, giving birth to greater and greater wind shear. Everything converged onto the blade, and became progressively compressed.
    The hyper-dense layers of gas went beyond the limits of physics and soon turned into an all-annihilating weapon that was devouring space itself.
    Sound and light converged at the fissure, the blade spun pure silence and darkness. Gilgamesh tightly gripped the hilt, which was howling like a living creature. He swung at the long-parted friend he just met without hesitation.

    "ENUMA-------ELISH!"

    The fissure blossomed.

    The microcosm that had been compressed beyond the limit around Ea was unleashed.
    The pressure released buckled the space around, the World was turned inside out by the Void.
    Who could believe that one swing could produce such a scene?
    The Void leaked from the fractured space and tore further at the surroundings, causing infinite cracks that further eroded the World.
    The sandy ground tore like clay, the sky and the clouds were shredded with ease.
    It was as if someone took a painting and put it into a blender.

    Fate/Strange Fake - Not entirely written by Nasu but by using material written by Nasu

    But here is the interesting tidbit from Da Vinci about Ea around two years after that Strange/Fake: To begin with, even if you release the full power of a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm, it still can't completely destroy the planet. Anti-Planetary (or Anti-Star in some translations) Noble Phantasm...even if such a thing existed...According to calculations it's still not possible to destroy this planet. (Fate/Grand Order - Shinjuku singularity)

    But the context is with Counter Force, because bla bla Earth doesn't want herself to get wrecked once again after Zelretch vs Crimson Moon bla bla something like that.

    So yeah as you guess Nasu contradict herself so much it doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Aozaki; 09-25-2021 at 01:21 AM.

  8. #23
    All-New Member Nebulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    And didn't God Arjuna constantly reset the universe every few days/weeks in that one timeline, and defeating him needed your team to team up with Karna fused with Vishnu and Shiva (the only Hindu gods who God Arjuna hadn't absorbed), or something like that?

    And Ryougi Shiki in general is supposed to be the avatar of the Akashic Records, IIRC, which should be universal in terms of overall scale.
    Planet actually which is what he was destroying and recreating each time. Think it was mentioned he could eventually expand his influence across the entire galaxy too but that was never actually demonstrated

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Aozaki;5745935]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    So not actually universal then. I played the Extra game, and know of the digital universe you're refering too, which is pretty darn tiny, to the size of what, a city?



    May I have the source please?



    The spiraling wind engulfed more air, generating a small tornado.
    The tornado overlapped, giving birth to greater and greater wind shear. Everything converged onto the blade, and became progressively compressed.
    The hyper-dense layers of gas went beyond the limits of physics and soon turned into an all-annihilating weapon that was devouring space itself.
    Sound and light converged at the fissure, the blade spun pure silence and darkness. Gilgamesh tightly gripped the hilt, which was howling like a living creature. He swung at the long-parted friend he just met without hesitation.

    "ENUMA-------ELISH!"

    The fissure blossomed.

    The microcosm that had been compressed beyond the limit around Ea was unleashed.
    The pressure released buckled the space around, the World was turned inside out by the Void.
    Who could believe that one swing could produce such a scene?
    The Void leaked from the fractured space and tore further at the surroundings, causing infinite cracks that further eroded the World.
    The sandy ground tore like clay, the sky and the clouds were shredded with ease.
    It was as if someone took a painting and put it into a blender.

    Fate/Strange Fake - Not entirely written by Nasu but by using material written by Nasu
    So not the universe, but the space and area around them, in other words?

    But here is the interesting tidbit from Da Vinci about Ea around two years after that Strange/Fake: To begin with, even if you release the full power of a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm, it still can't completely destroy the planet. Anti-Planetary (or Anti-Star in some translations) Noble Phantasm...even if such a thing existed...According to calculations it's still not possible to destroy this planet. (Fate/Grand Order - Shinjuku singularity)
    So even the strongest doesn't have what it takes to bust a planet?

    But the context is with Counter Force, because bla bla Earth doesn't want herself to get wrecked once again after Zelretch vs Crimson Moon bla bla something like that.
    Idk bud, seema more like a power limitation from here.

    So yeah as you guess Nasu contradict herself so much it doesn't make sense.
    Wait...Nasu is a Chick? Always thought Nasu was a dude, dude.
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  10. #25
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cody;5751898]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki View Post

    So not the universe, but the space and area around them, in other words?



    So even the strongest doesn't have what it takes to bust a planet?



    Idk bud, seema more like a power limitation from here.



    Wait...Nasu is a Chick? Always thought Nasu was a dude, dude.
    Nah, Nasu is definitely a dude. He joked in the Typemoon blog(a few months after the original Fate/Stay Night was released for PC) about the first time his full name was revealed in a newspaper, and people automatically assumed he was a woman because his first name (Kinoko) sounds feminine.

    And yeah, no Heroic Spirits (outside of very special circumstances) in Fate has legitimate feats of Planet-busting. Hell, to add to Da Vinci's analysis, she stated that Solomon (the first Big Bad of FGO) was only capable of core-busting at best, and he's above the likes of Gilgamesh in raw power(if not versatility).
    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 09-29-2021 at 07:35 AM.
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    Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!

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