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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default What do you think the original plan for New Krypton was?

    When Geoff Johns & Kurt Busiek took over the Superman books post-Infinite Crisis, it felt like they were setting up a lot of pieces that would have presumably culminated in the New Krypton arc.

    However, the conclusion of Johns's initial arc was delayed, which allowed Busiek to play with Chris Kent for longer than was likely intended. Then Johns left the books to do Secret Origins with Frank, and Busiek also moved on. Mark Waid was offered the book, then that offer was unceremoniously pulled, after which Greg Rucka and James Robinson were brought on, but reportedly, their story was radically altered at the last minute, leading to a rushed, unsatisfying conclusion to a storyline that was years in the making.

    Does anyone know what happened? What was the original ending? Why was Waid's offer pulled? Were low sales the reason for the abrupt ending?

    And, perhaps, more importantly, how would you have liked to the New Krypton storyline to wrap up?

  2. #2
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    I can't imagine too many fans were happy when Superman was replaced in one book by Mon-El, the other by Nightwing (not that one) and Flamebird and World of New Krypton was 50/50 Supes and Zod.

    Maybe I have a different perspective on it but I had quit reading Johns' book during the delays in Last Son and following Kurt Busiek's Camelot Falls (still one of my favourite Superman stories). Around 2008 I completely quit DC and Marvel (except for GL/GLC through Blackest Night) until the New 52.

    When I regained interest I gathered all of New Krypton as trades and found it to be a really fun story when read in one massive block. Doesn't hurt that I really enjoy both James Robinson's and Greg Rucka's writing. I can definitely see it being a chore as monthlies with no end in sight, though.
    Last edited by exile001; 09-20-2021 at 07:15 AM.
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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Busiek has hinted at the ending a couple times on here but he’s never told us because he can either use it for his own stories or on the off chance he gets to tell it at DC.

    Yes low sales are what killed it, and Johns & Busiek leaving contributed to that. Waid’s offer got pulled I assume because of bad blood between Didio, Harras, and Waid.

    My guess as to the original ending? New Krypton would’ve been moved somewhere else, exiling Clark and Kara, perhaps Zod too. That would’ve been a way to give a reason why Zod hates Clark so much even after working together.
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  4. #4
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what the plan for New Krypton itself was, but I do remember the original plan being a lead-up to a huge DC Universe-spanning crossover thing. I would guess that either New Krypton would get bottled up again, or something similar to what happened in the truncated version would have happened - just much better and over a longer period of time.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I'm not sure what the plan for New Krypton itself was, but I do remember the original plan being a lead-up to a huge DC Universe-spanning crossover thing. I would guess that either New Krypton would get bottled up again, or something similar to what happened in the truncated version would have happened - just much better and over a longer period of time.
    Hm... Maybe Blackest Night got in the way of that crossover plan? They were happening around the same time at some point, New Krypton even got a BN tie-in.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post

    My guess as to the original ending? New Krypton would’ve been moved somewhere else, exiling Clark and Kara, perhaps Zod too. That would’ve been a way to give a reason why Zod hates Clark so much even after working together.
    That would have been my choice too. New Krypton gets moved somewhere with the ones left behind having no idea where it had been moved. It would have made for an interesting take with Clark and Kara (and even Zod) knowing their people were out there somewhere but having no way to find them.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I have no idea what the original plan was, but I suspect DC intended to change the status quo "for good." This was around the time the legal rights to the character were in question right? Odds are DC was setting up something to get around the legal battle; a replacement for Clark or a new status quo that couldn't be argued in court or something.

    I forget the details of WoNK. When Last Son got delayed, I dropped the books. Came back for the start of New Krypton and didn't bother beyond the second or third issues, as I had no interest in reading a Superman book without Superman.

    Given the people involved (Johns and Didio and...?), I'm sure that whatever the plan was, it was awful. As bad as WoNK ended up being, we probably dodged a bullet.
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  8. #8
    Superman and Wonder Woman
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    Neither Johns nor Busiek have ever discussed this?

  9. #9
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    It is my sincerest hope that now that we have an "Omniverse" (which amounts to them just actually using Hypertime) that they will go back to moments such as this where the DiDidiot screwed creatives over with his meddling and give us the intended ending for 'that earth'. Rucka was especially screwed over epically on three major occasions; this one, Amazons Attack (it was, as originally conceived, going to be good and an actual awesome show of Amazons being awesome as opposed to their being fodder), and the Maxwell Lord resolution exploring the delicate balance Diana must walk as one with divine wisdom)

  10. #10
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Neither Johns nor Busiek have ever discussed this?
    Not that I'm aware of. Both of these guys are smart enough to not spill the beans on stories that they could potentially use again.

    I mean, Johns is still being coy about who Mr. Oz was originally intended to be...

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Maybe I have a different perspective on it but I had quit reading Johns' book during the delays in Last Son and following Kurt Busiek's Camelot Falls (still one of my favourite Superman stories).
    How is Busiek's run in isolation? I don't like what Johns did with Superman and don't care about New Krypton, does Busiek's run make sense without these things?

  12. #12
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    How is Busiek's run in isolation? I don't like what Johns did with Superman and don't care about New Krypton, does Busiek's run make sense without these things?
    Camelot Falls is pretty much on its own and is very good. It feels intended as a contained arc by a team rather than part of a larger run (e.g. For Tomorrow), even though Busiek continued on. I'm certain you don't need to know any of the surrounding books to follow it comfortably.

    This feels like a continuation of the pre-Infinite Crisis Superman rather than the Johns version. Chris Kent may appear, I can't remember off the top of my head.

    The rest of the run is okay but skippable. It was a bit of a mess as he kept getting dragged over to Action to fill in for Johns, artist changes and got saddled with editorial nonsense from crap like Countdown.
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  13. #13
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I think aside from what Ascended referred to, I think the whole point of New Krypton was to do for the Superman franchise what the emotional spectrum stuff in Green Lantern did for that franchise. I.E. soft rebooting and expanding it beyond the standard traditional Green Lantern core mythos. Some new toys in the toy box and build things out for the mythos. It was clear it was Johns and Busiek's baby and when they both ended up leaving, Rucka and Robinson ended up saddled with a story they probably didn't want to do.

    Lower sales killed it for sure, but right around that time there were apparently internal rumblings of what became the New 52, which I'm sure influenced the decision to end the story quickly and move on to something else.
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  14. #14
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    It’s been over a decade. I’ve forgotten everyone’s fates, not counting Clark, Lois, Lucy and Kara.
    And New Krypton itself being blown up by Reacteon.

    Can anyone give a rundown of all the characters involved FatWS?
    Nightwing? Flamebird? Sam Lane? Atlas? Zoe-El? Kara’s mother?

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I think aside from what Ascended referred to, I think the whole point of New Krypton was to do for the Superman franchise what the emotional spectrum stuff in Green Lantern did for that franchise. I.E. soft rebooting and expanding it beyond the standard traditional Green Lantern core mythos. Some new toys in the toy box and build things out for the mythos. It was clear it was Johns and Busiek's baby and when they both ended up leaving, Rucka and Robinson ended up saddled with a story they probably didn't want to do.
    Oh yeah, this was definitely an attempt to expand Clark's mythos ala the emotional spectrum. Johns did the same thing with Flash when Barry came back too. And on paper it's not a bad idea; post-Crisis had erased all of the crazy, silly, big ideas from Superman and the attempts to return them had often fallen through (some exceptions aside). I remember being excited by the concept and the potential of where WoNK might lead. Then it all fell apart.

    I think Johns is a solid writer who has done a lot of amazing stuff I've really, really enjoyed. And he seems like a nice guy. I'd like to have a beer with him sometime. But he shouldn't touch Superman, he's just not a good fit. Which is weird, because he usually does a good job writing pure archetypes (his Hal is raw "maverick" archetype, through and through, and it's one of the few times I've found Hal readable). But somehow Johns' Superman just ends up being generic and boring. Stargirl? Booster? GL? Hawkman? JSA? Shazam? Hell yeah. Johns has done some of my favorite tales ever with those guys. But not Clark.

    WoNK likely would've been better if Busiek had crafted it on his own. That's a guy I think I'd trust with the keys to the kingdom, and the mandate to expand it.
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