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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    It’s been over a decade. I’ve forgotten everyone’s fates, not counting Clark, Lois, Lucy and Kara.
    And New Krypton itself being blown up by Reacteon.

    Can anyone give a rundown of all the characters involved FatWS?
    Nightwing? Flamebird? Sam Lane? Atlas? Zoe-El? Kara’s mother?
    @Bold
    FatWS/Falcon and the Winter Soldier?

    Nightwing/Chris Kent/Lor-Zod used his Phantom Zone powers to absorb his father back into the PZ, in Superman's place. As Supes was prepared to make the sacrifice play to imprison Zod...again. Just like in John's Last Son.

    Flamebird/Thara Ak-Var died turning the sun yellow. After Sam Lane and Luthor staged a massive asspull by using the corpse of the Rao creature (which was created by Jax-Ur) to turn the sun red. This along with the detonation of Reactron on New Krypton, killed the bulk of the 80,000 surviving Ks. Roughly 20,000 were killed by Brainiac during the preceding Last Stand of New Krypton arc.


    Sam Lane put a pistol in his mouth and blew his brains out.


    *Tangent about Sam Lane.
    One thing I never liked, was the recent (started in 2009 by Geoff Johns) depiction of Sam Lane as THE anti-Superman US military avatar. He comes off as a discount General Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross from Incredible Hulk. Right down to Lois playing Betty, to Clark's Bruce Banner. Secret Origin (2009) is where Johns hyped Lane as a threat that culminated into the disaster that was New Krypton (2008-2010). The New 52 reset Lane to being skeptical, initially. Then dialed back up to 11 with Superman Unchained in 2014.

    Characters like General Hardcastle (Superman TAS), General Eiling (comics and Justice League Unlimited) or even King Faraday (Mr. I-Spy and the character Nick Fury was based off of), would be better foils as anti-Superman government officials.

    *Rant over


    Atlas went from Champ.


    To Chump.
    Kara and Steel wiped the floor with Lucy Lane/Superwoman and Atlas off panel during the war.



    Zor-El was killed by Reactron early in New Krypton's story.

    Alura In-Ze/Supergirl's mom was killed when Reactron blew up New Krypton.


    New Krypton was not a storyline that ran it's course and ended. It was a story line that was aborted by the powers that be.


    I believe the original intention for NK was an interstellar war among other races in the DCU. Thanagar, Saturians, Gordanians, Dominators, etc. With Earth being caught in the crossfire. NK sales took a dive. So there was a rush reset the status quo as fast as possible. So, we got a war against Earth. With the humans staging a series of implausible victories that killed 80,000 Kryptonians in just 2 issues. The League, the JSA, the Legion, the Titans and multi-colored Lanters are all non-factors in the war. Even though most have intersected with the New Krypton story during it's 2 year build up. The writers could've solved this without resorting to asspulls and total genocide. But that would require too much work and actually planning.
    Last edited by Doctor Know; 09-22-2021 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh yeah, this was definitely an attempt to expand Clark's mythos ala the emotional spectrum. Johns did the same thing with Flash when Barry came back too.
    It makes sense that after a hit that was GL: Rebirth Didio kept giving big opportunities to Johns to do the same with other franchises, but I wonder if at some point we won't start discussing if GL: Rebirth wasn't a fluke?

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    It makes sense that after a hit that was GL: Rebirth Didio kept giving big opportunities to Johns to do the same with other franchises, but I wonder if at some point we won't start discussing if GL: Rebirth wasn't a fluke?
    It wasn’t. Franchises that Johns has successfully revamped: GL, JSA, Flash (as a Wally fan, Johns’ work with Barry has been among some of the most financially successful Flash stories), Justice League (Johns origin is more or less the default origin for now), Shazam, and Aquaman. All franchises Johns revamped that achieved greater success afterwards. Was a lot of that because of Johns being CCO and pushing to get his stories adapted? Of course, but hey, a lot of those adaptions were successes! Superman and Batman are the flukes because they’re where Johns failed. Of his Superman stories, only his take on Brainiac has really endured (Metallo too somewhat), and his Batman EO is kind of a success but not at all to his usual level.
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  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It wasn’t. Franchises that Johns has successfully revamped: GL, JSA, Flash (as a Wally fan, Johns’ work with Barry has been among some of the most financially successful Flash stories), Justice League (Johns origin is more or less the default origin for now), Shazam, and Aquaman. All franchises Johns revamped that achieved greater success afterwards. Was a lot of that because of Johns being CCO and pushing to get his stories adapted? Of course, but hey, a lot of those adaptions were successes! Superman and Batman are the flukes because they’re where Johns failed. Of his Superman stories, only his take on Brainiac has really endured (Metallo too somewhat), and his Batman EO is kind of a success but not at all to his usual level.
    Johns' take on TT for the 2003 revamp was also a success. The first 50 issues (collected in a massive omnibus) are some of the best Titans material out there. After Johns left Titans, the book cratered into schlock.


    Johns' Batman and Superman have failed to catch any momentum. All the Donner inspired, Christopher Reeve imagery can't save most of Johns' takes on the Man of Steel. Johns Earth One Batman left me empty. I've seen enough year one Batman stories, and Johns' didn't bring anything new to the table.

    Johns really is the BMB for DC. A lot of his takes on less popular characters were strong. Brought down by a series of middling events and poor showcasing with A-listers.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    Johns' take on TT for the 2003 revamp was also a success. The first 50 issues (collected in a massive omnibus) are some of the best Titans material out there. After Johns left Titans, the book cratered into schlock.


    Johns' Batman and Superman have failed to catch any momentum. All the Donner inspired, Christopher Reeve imagery can't save most of Johns' takes on the Man of Steel. Johns Earth One Batman left me empty. I've seen enough year one Batman stories, and Johns' didn't bring anything new to the table.

    Johns really is the BMB for DC. A lot of his takes on less popular characters were strong. Brought down by a series of middling events and poor showcasing with A-listers.
    What about his LoSH retroboot?

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    What about his LoSH retroboot?
    I loved that, but his failure to follow up on that with a run like he and Frank intended, and his failure to get Doomsday Clock out the door on time, really crippled the potential. Now it seems Bendis Fourthboot will probably be the base going forward.
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  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If I had to take a guess, I would imagine they wanted to to take from the old pre-Crisis idea of Rokyn and have New Krypton become that kind of fixture within Superman's mythos.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  8. #23
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It wasn’t. Franchises that Johns has successfully revamped: GL, JSA, Flash (as a Wally fan, Johns’ work with Barry has been among some of the most financially successful Flash stories), Justice League (Johns origin is more or less the default origin for now), Shazam, and Aquaman. All franchises Johns revamped that achieved greater success afterwards. Was a lot of that because of Johns being CCO and pushing to get his stories adapted? Of course, but hey, a lot of those adaptions were successes! Superman and Batman are the flukes because they’re where Johns failed. Of his Superman stories, only his take on Brainiac has really endured (Metallo too somewhat), and his Batman EO is kind of a success but not at all to his usual level.
    The Solar Flare is also an established Superman power now, which Johns introduced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I loved that, but his failure to follow up on that with a run like he and Frank intended, and his failure to get Doomsday Clock out the door on time, really crippled the potential. Now it seems Bendis Fourthboot will probably be the base going forward.
    I feel like people responded better to the retroboot more than the Fourthboot but I guess it really just depends on your opinion of Bendis and some of the Legion revamps. I'm not sure how much momentum it has right now.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The Solar Flare is also an established Superman power now, which Johns introduced.

    I feel like people responded better to the retroboot more than the Fourthboot but I guess it really just depends on your opinion of Bendis and some of the Legion revamps. I'm not sure how much momentum it has right now.
    In the comics it has none, but it will be the take they go with for any adaptions because it’s more diverse. “Diversity” is the buzzword of the moment, and also the hope is that people will take an interest if the team of the future isn’t overwhelmingly white with a few tokens here and there. You take the Bendis designs and use the old stories for them and they might achieve success. I would’ve preferred going with the retro boot as Clark’s Legion and the new Legion as their descendants for Jon, but what’s done is done.
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It wasn’t. Franchises that Johns has successfully revamped: GL, JSA, Flash (as a Wally fan, Johns’ work with Barry has been among some of the most financially successful Flash stories), Justice League (Johns origin is more or less the default origin for now), Shazam, and Aquaman. All franchises Johns revamped that achieved greater success afterwards. Was a lot of that because of Johns being CCO and pushing to get his stories adapted? Of course, but hey, a lot of those adaptions were successes! Superman and Batman are the flukes because they’re where Johns failed. Of his Superman stories, only his take on Brainiac has really endured (Metallo too somewhat), and his Batman EO is kind of a success but not at all to his usual level.
    JSA was so successfully revamped that its not being published for a decade now

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    JSA was so successfully revamped that its not being published for a decade now
    JSA kept going after Johns left, it was the New 52 reboot that killed the book. Not sure why you’d say the Johns take on the JSA wasn’t a success. Hell isn’t that take what JSA fans want to go back to?
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  12. #27
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    It was clear it was Johns and Busiek's baby and when they both ended up leaving
    I might be wrong but I seem to recall Busiek was unexpectedly dropped from it as editorial swerved direction (with Johns leaving).
    Just. Be. Nice.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I might be wrong but I seem to recall Busiek was unexpectedly dropped from it as editorial swerved direction (with Johns leaving).
    Has Kurt ever commented here on the matter?

  14. #29
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    In the comics it has none, but it will be the take they go with for any adaptions because it’s more diverse. “Diversity” is the buzzword of the moment, and also the hope is that people will take an interest if the team of the future isn’t overwhelmingly white with a few tokens here and there. You take the Bendis designs and use the old stories for them and they might achieve success. I would’ve preferred going with the retro boot as Clark’s Legion and the new Legion as their descendants for Jon, but what’s done is done.
    I think the race changes will stick more than the designs will because I don't think Sook's design look good outside when he draws them (seriously, what is up with Phantom Girl?).

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Has Kurt ever commented here on the matter?
    He did comment here once. I believe he said he left to go do Trinity. But you’d have to ask him yourself over on the Marvel sub forum to be certain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the race changes will stick more than the designs will because I don't think Sook's design look good outside when he draws them (seriously, what is up with Phantom Girl?).
    May be right, and ultimately it’s the racial changes that are all the execs are going to care about, not the costumes.
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