View Poll Results: Permanent Legacy Characters

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  • Yes

    28 19.31%
  • No

    61 42.07%
  • Depends on the hero they're replacing

    56 38.62%
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  1. #61
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    I really don't get the opposition to legacy characters

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I don't even know if the backlash to Spider-man Beyond is still a thing now that we know the specifics, but if it's still disliked then there are a variety of reasons.

    The initial revulsion to the announcement came because people have been waiting for Marvel to undo OMD, and this seemed like it might be a diversion from it. There was no way to know if this was gonna be a couple of months or a couple of years. Second reason is that Ben Reilly just isn't that popular today, whereas someone like Miles Morales might have a somewhat warmer reception. The third reason is that Ben already was Spider-man, so it seemed like a reash of an old unpopular storyline.

    All of these reasons have to do with the specifics of the announcement, not the notion of replacing characters.
    Honestly... I'd love to see Ben Reilly back... if he was more than just "Peter Parker clone".

    Hmmm might be interesting if he hooked up with Carolyn Trainer or something.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    For example, Iron Man being dead carries more weight if there’s not somebody else out there trying to call themselves Iron Man.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    For example, Iron Man being dead carries more weight if there’s not somebody else out there trying to call themselves Iron Man.
    Worse is if it's in a book named Iron-Man....

  5. #65
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    No, if they were going to establish Legacy as a thing then they had to do it decades ago, these characters all have 60 year histories now and fans will not give them up after following them for that long.

    You can dress anyone up you like in the spider costume but Spider-Man will always be Peter Parker, anyone else is just a pretender. same with any other character but Peter is my favourite character of all time and he better not be going anywhere. legacy 99 (900) and issue 100 cant come son enough to get him back in the suit, at least i know he's still alive now and issue 82 sounds great.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Worse is if it's in a book named Iron-Man....
    Exactly. That's Tony Stark's book!

  7. #67
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    So are fans just unwilling to let things evolve?

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    So are fans just unwilling to let things evolve?
    While I think I would like a publisher that just moved forward and created new things and focused on new stories, let's be real: Marvel puts out new books and characters and people do not buy them, and if people are tired of the same old characters being in the books named after them, there are plenty of other books from other publishers to read. So, everyone should be happy.

  9. #69
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    For example, Iron Man being dead carries more weight if there’s not somebody else out there trying to call themselves Iron Man.
    I think it carries more weight if Stark is actually dead with absolutely, positively zero chance of him returning in any way, shape or form. What they title the book doesn't matter, because his original fans will either roll with the changes or drop the book altogether, thus starting the process by which a new generation of readers are on-boarded. Readers who probably don't even know that Tony Stark was Iron Man, just as large swathes of the current Marvel and MCU audience doesn't know that Car-Ell wasn't the first, second or even third Captain Marvel.

    I get that everyone wants to preserve what's near and dear to them, but history has already given us a functioning, unassailable model. Tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse. Hold on while you can, because it can't last.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    While I think I would like a publisher that just moved forward and created new things and focused on new stories, let's be real: Marvel puts out new books and characters and people do not buy them, and if people are tired of the same old characters being in the books named after them, there are plenty of other books from other publishers to read. So, everyone should be happy.
    Yeah, but what about those of us who like seeing the familiar characters actually grow and change? And want new characters to succeed at the same time?

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, but what about those of us who like seeing the familiar characters actually grow and change? And want new characters to succeed at the same time?
    I don't know, I'm reading Wonder Girl and Superman Son of Kal El to see if DC can get a new generation going, but it is not like I think my interests in new characters supersedes those of people who want to continue reading the originals, or even those of people who might come new to the hobby and want to read new stories about those iconic characters.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, but what about those of us who like seeing the familiar characters actually grow and change? And want new characters to succeed at the same time?
    MC2 was GREAT!..... because it was not actually replacements for the "present era" characters, and instead was a mix of descendants and proteges.

    You could call them "legacy" characters in that they had similar powers and roles in the story. But most of them didn't use the same name or costume as the character they were inspired by.

    Well then you have people like Jubilee... same name, same powers, slightly modified look, new role in the story. She's got the same personality and fashion sense, but now has the job of being the older, wiser team leader.

    Vs Magneta.... who was quickly shown to be a wannabe and while she had similar powers.... she didn't have the same ideals as the original. She didn't really even know Magneto... she liked the idea of him more than anything else.

    Which is what made MC2 so much fun. It didn't play the "legacy" idea straight.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 09-26-2021 at 11:49 PM.

  13. #73
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    It depends on the legacy character, but generally they're not as interesting as the original to be permanently replaced.

    Most of the time that a legacy character manages to successfully dethrone the original, it's because the original wasn't that interesting in the first place. That's how Johnny Storm, Barry Allen, and Hal Jordan managed to successfully and completely replace their predecessors.

    Nostalgia is also a powerful factor. The older character also has to be weak enough that no one wants to bring them back, or the new character has to be strong enough that even nostalgia can't do anything about it. We saw this in the case of Wally West. Wally as The Flash surpassed Barry in every possible, conceivable, empirical way... but only to Millennials. An older guy like Johns decides to bring Barry back and all of that gets undone. Had it not been for that, Barry would have become like Jay Garrick.

    Pretty much all the major Marvel characters today are strong enough that I don't see them being replaced. The ones that aren't as strong, they already were replaced weren't they? Carol more-or-less permanently replaced Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel, and Dan Ketch more-or-less permanently replaced Johnny Blaze as Ghost Rider. Again, neither of the former were as interesting to begin with, so you could get away with that.

    Whereas Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, the original Thor, Hulk, and Wolverine are all very interesting. So the likes of Miles Morales, Spider-Girl, Sam Wilson, War Machine, Roro Williams, Jane Thor, She-Hulk, and X-23 (who are also interesting) can co-exist with them but not replace them for that reason. They would also have to make the Silver Age versions feel like how readers felt when they compared Johnny Storm to the Android Human Torch. Only then would they replace the Silver Age versions.

  14. #74
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    I guess my interest in these mainstays would remain if they were allowed to age and be replaced. Because seeing them all do the same things forever doesn't really get the same returns. I'd actually like to see something new. Tbh, that's one thing the MCU has over the comics.

    And while I don't think it should be zero sum, it seems to be so in practice. So new heroes don't seem to get as much of a chance because editorial seems to care more about the older ones, or at least some of them

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    I think it can work if the "replaced" characters have a role to fulfill that fits them. If Laure became the only Wolverine, I don't think Logan as a character would suffer. He could go on and live the same kind of adventures he currently goes through. For that matter, he has already done that. When he got a proper regular series, besides the title, he didn't go as Wolverine, but as Patch or Logan.

    There are other characters that I don't think are suitable for the change, like Peter Parker. What would Peter do without the Spider-Man role? Sure, he could live a happy life with MJ and form a family or get a stable job or whatever, but it would mean to loose a character with a big fanbase. In those cases, I'm fine with superheroes sharing aliases. There're other times when I think said name sharing even adds to the team dynamic, as it does with Clint Barton and Kate Bishop, both fulfilling the role of Hawkeye
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

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