Would You Be Open To Legacy Characters PERMANENTLY Replacing The Originals?

[Triniking1234]

People already complain about lack of originality. I can't imagine how this helps.

One problem I have with how Marvel handles legacy these days is that they try to rehash old stories that we saw with the OGs.

Wolverine gets replaced by his daughter but they still want to give us Weapon X stories, Madripoor and Enemy of the State?

Oh yeah Asian Hulk but why do Planet Hulk again?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Cool story. I’m still down for legacies if only to hear people whine. We have to change with the world, and grasping onto an aging fan base isn’t the way to go.

The logical fallacy here is that older characters aren't as appealing to newer or younger audiences, which there is no evidence for and arguably tons of evidence against - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and most of the Silver Age Marvel heroes have all stood the test of time.

[TheRay]

One problem I have with how Marvel handles legacy these days is that they try to rehash old stories that we saw with the OGs.

That's why legacies are bad, they basically have to tell similar stories.

[Triniking1234]

That's why legacies are bad, they basically have to tell similar stories.

Someone brought up the DC legacy characters and I feel DC just did a better job with their replacements like Tim Drake, Kyle, Wally, etc. than whatever the hell Marvel has been doing.

[Alpha]

That's why legacies are bad, they basically have to tell similar stories.

No they don't. Many haven't.

[TheRay]

Not really an argument. Even if they haven't, it doesn't change the fact that legacies are bad.

[Alpha]

Not really an argument. Even if they haven't, it doesn't change the fact that legacies are bad.

It's not a fact.

[TheRay]

Someone brought up the DC legacy characters and I feel DC just did a better job with their replacements like Tim Drake, Kyle, Wally, etc. than whatever the hell Marvel has been doing.

If DC has had more people develop their own identities than Marvel has, then yes, that's true, and those three characters have done that.

[Clea]

I don't think there is a clear yes/no answer so I voted 'it depends.' When Marvel started, I doubt they thought they'd be writing the exact same character set 50+ years later, or that they would have a core audience who read their books for decades. Yet here we are. IMO, so long as clever writers can continue to tell interesting stories with the original characters, there is no need for Marvel to retire them and replace them with newer Legacy characters. OTOH, if over the decades, writers have tapped out all of the storytelling potential for an original character, then it's okay to retire them off page for a while, or maybe forever. How many unique, new characters has Marvel successfully introduced since the 90s? How many times did they try to introduce a new character only to have sales fall flat because readers wouldn't buy their books after one or two issues? (I genuinely don't know.) Are they having better luck introducing and sustaining a legacy version of an original character, vs adding a brand new character that is not linked somehow to an original character? How big of an effect on comics readership has the MCU had? Marvel/Disney has a huge, devoted film audience, but has that translated into a bigger comics reading audience? (I don't know.) Even if the answer to that is yes, the MCU itself is just recycling the original Marvel characters, so all these new Marvel fans would want to see comics about these characters, not a bunch of 'kid/legacy' versions of the characters.

[Rincewind]

One problem I have with how Marvel handles legacy these days is that they try to rehash old stories that we saw with the OGs.

Wolverine gets replaced by his daughter but they still want to give us Weapon X stories, Madripoor and Enemy of the State?

Oh yeah Asian Hulk but why do Planet Hulk again?

Did you read the Return to Planet Hulk storyline? It was not a rehash.

[Shadowcat]

Did you read the Return to Planet Hulk storyline? It was not a rehash.

And it makes sense X-23 has stories tied to Weapon X. She’s a product of the program.

[Shadowcat]

Not really an argument. Even if they haven't, it doesn't change the fact that legacies are bad.

Tell that to Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer, the Hawks, Red Tornado, Wally, Helena Bertinelli, the Robins, Miles, Kamala, the Black Widow, all of the Captain Marvel’s, and so on.

[Shadowcat]

People already complain about lack of originality. I can't imagine how this helps.

The fact that you’re complaining about legacy characters, while named after and sporting an avatar of a legacy is sooo ironic.

[skyvolt2000]

Not really an argument. Even if they haven't, it doesn't change the fact that legacies are bad.

Lets see....

Cassandra Cain is bad??? Because unlike the person she replaced... she took the title of Batgirl and that was the most successful era for that title.
Conner Kent held the Superboy title for 100+ issues. Not one was a copy of Clark Kent's runs.
Tim Drake was the first Robin to have a solo run not DICK. He had his OWN stories not copies of Dick Grayson.
Dick Grayson took the name Nightwing and ran with it. Folks forget that was a legacy name.
Supergirl.... the version that died in 1985 did nothing. Peter David's version was the longest run and did not copy any stories of the first one. The current one running around is not copying any story of that dead first one.
Malcolm Dragon at Image took over for his Dad-Savage Dragon. UNLIKE his Daddy-he got married and has 4 kids. He is no longer a cop and is not rehashing his Dad's stories.
The Black female Kick Azz at Image is NOT copying the male version.
Green Lantern Kyle had 10 years worth of stories. Where is the story of Hal's girlfriend being STUFFED in a fridge or stabbed to death like Kyle's girlfriend and John Stewart's WIFE?

How many copy cat stories did Hal, Barry, Michael Holt, Ryan Choi, Jason Rusch, Renee Montoya, Spectre #2-3, Amazing Man 2-3, Wildcat #2, Stargirl, James Robinson's Starman, Miguel O'Hara, Power Girl#2, Huntress #2, Conner Hawke, Ben Riley, Stephanie Brown, Shuri, Jade, Jane Foster, Kamala Khan, Monica, Night Thrasher #2, Deathlok 2-3, Jakeem Thunder, Dr Fate Jr, Manhunter 2-3, Power Man Jr, White Tiger, US Agent, Winter Solider, Nick Fury Jr, War Machine, Steel, Young Avengers, Blue Beetle, Rayshuan Lucas, Falcon #2, Black Lightning 's daughters, Wonder Girl, , Aqualad, Shilo Norman , Baby Doomsday and......Danielle Cage-who has been Thor and Cap America.

I can name a LOT more folks.....

We haven't talked VILLIANS yet.

So where these COMPLETE rehashes at?

Rehash meaning it's the SAME story panel by panel-nothing is different.

Joker going after Jace Fox, Jim Gordon, Jean Paul or Dick is NOT a rehash-it Joker seeing that suit.

[marhawkman]

No one should listen to anyone.... If your reason is "I want people to suffer and get angry about things" you're being a bad person.

I was originally in the "I'm against legacy characters" camp but, after reading this thread I think... I'm very much against legacy characters.
Primarily, because of posters like the one above, I realize I've come across enough people that just aren't making good faith arguments about the situation.

There are enough people who are like *HWWK SPIT* "The death of progressivism" and people who are like *Embrace Change!*/*Tear it down!" that honest people in the
center get drowned out. The center MUST hold.

I just want great stories and the honest truth is you don't get the best stories when the motivation for the change isn't "Lets make the best story every" but "We need another female/black/gay/etc." representation based hero. You don't get the best stories when you handcuff to keep those same voices out.

Even being black I was pretty uninspired and slightly disgusted but Sam Wilson Captain America. Its a wildly mediocre tale told by people the most unsubtle company, and weakest grasp of nuance. It does a disservice to the falcon (who I guess
just isn't a character with enough gravitas), but I admit the MCU version of the passing made a bit more sense, then the show was mediocre too. Smh.

In theory the characters need to grow and change but not so people can age them out and install characters that reflect "Modern Sensibilities" thats just poison. That idea doesn't attract new readers it actually adds to the reason that people are flocking to manga. Manga still recognizes that the "Heroes Journey is still a story worth telling. Maybe the only story.

The idea that the characters are "problematic" and need to be changed is mistaken and the idea that nostalgia holds change back is mistaken as well. I've heard people wanting Blue Marvel hand his legacy down to his kids because him "obeying" kennedy's request to step down was basically traitorous, and not just in this thread.
They'd rather have stories angry young black demigod, I guess, and maybe thats compelling because the stories ends with him being just like his old man. Choosing peace over destruction. otherwise its a story about a villain.

Finally. . . and maybe most important. It feels so lazy. Theres this big lie about people not wanting new characters so we gotta do legacies. No. You want the existing fans PLUS whoever else you can pull in without THE RISK. Without the effort. These character didn't get big as they are overnight and legacy tries to circumvent that. Its lame.

I bought "Collapser" from dc when it came out cause I thought "that sounds cool", but I don't "NEED" to try new things. The companies need to get customers to try new things. The big comics companies have been too used to dealing with fans aka fanatics aka Marvel zombies... but really people have too many entertainment options to take just anything now.

Yeah, I've come to suspect that most comic book readers don't actually know or care about character ethnicities. Why? because of how many people... have no idea what ethnicity most characters are. :/ So... is that actually a major selling point? I'd guess... no. So making a new version of an old character just for race bending.... probably won't actually get much interest. "But X character did great!" yeah... but.... Y didn't.... Also was character X actually written JUST to be a different race, or was it an actually good character in their own right?

Someone brought up the DC legacy characters and I feel DC just did a better job with their replacements like Tim Drake, Kyle, Wally, etc. than whatever the hell Marvel has been doing.

I think the trick with those was that they had a story. Hal Jordan went Parallax then died. Kyle was the only GL in the comics for years. Also, being a Green Lantern is literally a job. Oh and Hal wasn't even the original. But yeah a big part was committing to the story they had laid out.