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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    He could also just lead a team of Titans. Dare I say, Titans West?
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    He could also just lead a team of Titans. Dare I say, Titans West?
    Based on what we've seen from him, I don't think he's ready to lead any team. I could see him working as a member of the Team Titans if DC ever decides on a revival.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Then have him co-lead with Kid Devil.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    To me, the biggest problem with Wallace West is that his name is Wallace West and he's Iris West's nephew. So now Iris has a Black Wallace Kid Flash nephew and a white Wally Kid Flash nephew. If those two things weren't true, you could do just about anything with him. The only reason Didio could have had to do that was to make sure Wally was permanently erased from the DCU. Dude had such a mad-on for the Titans and the JSA. Thank goodness the new leadership feels the opposite way.

    I don't know what you do with him now. Let him adopt his middle name since he realizes there was a Wally before him, give him a new costume and code name since he now knows that Wally was both things already too, and happily keep him as a member of the Flash family. Same guy, same function, just not a complete and utter copycat. Only Didio...

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Speaking as a Wally West fan who dropped Flash after Barry came back, I think benching Wallace R West because of the back office politics that lead to the latter's creation would be in bad taste and runs the risk of falling into the same narrow minded favoritism that got Wally West in limbo for years. Yes, Wallace does not have as many stories as Wally but that doesn't mean he can't grow into a meaningful character over time. Characters should always be separate from the back office bs and favoritism. Look at Jason Todd, dude started off as a strawberry blonde Dick Grayson clone who was then reinvented as a tough street kid by a writer who hated the Robin and wanted you to hate him too then he was killed off via a phone poll and now he's been brought back, is a fan favorite, starred in one of the more popular DTV movies, video games, web comics and star of the Red Hood & The Outlaws. Wallace deserves the time and care to establish a niche for himself too.
    But is it possible to create a niche when he and Wally overlap so much? Both are named Wallace West, were/are Kid Flash, and are Iris' nephew. That would be like if Jason Todd was originally also called Richard Grayson along with being Robin and having the circus background. Jason Todd at least had his own name that was his and his alone. Then when they decided to revamp the character and give him a new background and changed his hair color his own name at least carried over. Wallace doesn't have that. Having two characters that are both called Wallace West and are Iris' nephew is just ridiculous to me. I really don't understand how people defend that. It does nothing but limit both characters.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But is it possible to create a niche when he and Wally overlap so much? Both are named Wallace West, were/are Kid Flash, and are Iris' nephew. That would be like if Jason Todd was originally also called Richard Grayson along with being Robin and having the circus background. Jason Todd at least had his own name that was his and his alone. Then when they decided to revamp the character and give him a new background and changed his hair color his own name at least carried over. Wallace doesn't have that. Having two characters that are both called Wallace West and are Iris' nephew is just ridiculous to me. I really don't understand how people defend that. It does nothing but limit both characters.
    The civilian names are fine. We have cousins Air Wave and Green Lantern, both being named “Hal Jordan.”
    The thing with Wallace is changing his Kid Flash moniker and not let him become the adult Flash, or else he’s just a copy/paste of Wally’s life, just with a darker skin color.

  7. #67
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    the Flash family are notorious for sharing name so I "don't know" why Wallace and Wally is so hard for people to grasp. if we change Wallace's name because he overlaps with Wally then we need to change Jai, Irey, and Bart's names; simple as that. it's intellectually disingenuous and, more importantly for this thread, it's a lazy "critique" that doesn't really help the character by "fixing".
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  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    The civilian names are fine. We have cousins Air Wave and Green Lantern, both being named “Hal Jordan.”
    The thing with Wallace is changing his Kid Flash moniker and not let him become the adult Flash, or else he’s just a copy/paste of Wally’s life, just with a darker skin color.
    This is probably why after almost 20 years of reading comics I had no idea who Air Wave is and had to look him up. Having Hal Jordan with a cousin named Hal Jordan who is also a superhero is just awful and I'm not surprised that DC wants to sweep that one under the rug. Think about how much worse it would be if they were both Green Lanterns.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    the Flash family are notorious for sharing name so I "don't know" why Wallace and Wally is so hard for people to grasp. if we change Wallace's name because he overlaps with Wally then we need to change Jai, Irey, and Bart's names; simple as that. it's intellectually disingenuous and, more importantly for this thread, it's a lazy "critique" that doesn't really help the character by "fixing".
    Not sure what your problem with Jai West is but Irey and Bart have their own unique codenames and backstories preventing them from overlapping too much with their namesakes and more importantly, their namesakes aren't currently headlining the franchise. I think it's also worth pointing out that they should definitely stop naming younger characters after older ones. It's one thing when it's one or two with enough differences but when it's every young member of the family it gets more and more ridiculous.

    Irey and Iris West have nothing in common except for being part of the West family and Bart is pretty easily differentiated as a grandson from the future with his own codename which has never been shared by Barry. The closest we've ever come to overreaching that is when Bart became the Flash and started studying police science and that was obviously not ideal. Bart was never constructed as a replacement of Barry and Irey was never constructed as a replacement of Iris.

    Wallace West meanwhile is Iris West's nephew who became Kid Flash and was mentored by Barry Allen. He wears a yellow and red costume and is a member of the Teen Titans. Which one am I talking about? See the problem? Wallace was created to replace Wally so he has these problems where the other characters don't. It's even worse when you have the former Wally West Kid Flash as the current Flash and the new Wallace West as the current Kid Flash. I'm not saying there is NOTHING unique about Wallace. Obviously, a lot of good writers have put in a lot of good work in to develop him but that doesn't change the fact that Wallace is only named Kid Flash because Wally was Kid Flash and only shares the same name because he was a replacement.

    The elements that he took from Wally that were forced upon him to make him a cheap replacement should be changed so that he is allowed to grow into his own character. Until then, I see him as little more than a leftover marketing ploy from an era where they insisted on pushing the idea that Wally West is Kid Flash and not The Flash.

    Make him unique enough to stand on his own and still be part of the rest of the Flash family without it being glaringly convoluted and a constant awful reminder of what happened to Wally and the Flash family during New 52. A name and costume change would help a lot with that.

    Why don't we make him the new Air Wave? :P
    Last edited by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper; 09-27-2021 at 08:01 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    The civilian names are fine. We have cousins Air Wave and Green Lantern, both being named “Hal Jordan.”
    The thing with Wallace is changing his Kid Flash moniker and not let him become the adult Flash, or else he’s just a copy/paste of Wally’s life, just with a darker skin color.
    No one knows who Air Wave is and they dont share any titles thats not the same thing at all.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    The civilian names are fine. We have cousins Air Wave and Green Lantern, both being named “Hal Jordan.”
    The thing with Wallace is changing his Kid Flash moniker and not let him become the adult Flash, or else he’s just a copy/paste of Wally’s life, just with a darker skin color.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    the Flash family are notorious for sharing name so I "don't know" why Wallace and Wally is so hard for people to grasp. if we change Wallace's name because he overlaps with Wally then we need to change Jai, Irey, and Bart's names; simple as that. it's intellectually disingenuous and, more importantly for this thread, it's a lazy "critique" that doesn't really help the character by "fixing".
    Both Wally and Wallace are Iris and Barry's nephew though. It is very different than just having two characters with the same or similar names. They fit into the exact same role within the Flash franchise to the point it hurts both characters. You limit both. I don't understand why Wallace fans are so defensive when it would be in the character's best interest to have his own unique name that would allow him more room to grow as a character. I'm not saying he should give up Kid Flash or anything. All you need to do is say Wallace is just his middle name and give him a new first name and then never mention the Wallace name again. Then you at least put that major problem behind the character.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But is it possible to create a niche when he and Wally overlap so much? Both are named Wallace West, were/are Kid Flash, and are Iris' nephew. That would be like if Jason Todd was originally also called Richard Grayson along with being Robin and having the circus background. Jason Todd at least had his own name that was his and his alone. Then when they decided to revamp the character and give him a new background and changed his hair color his own name at least carried over. Wallace doesn't have that. Having two characters that are both called Wallace West and are Iris' nephew is just ridiculous to me. I really don't understand how people defend that. It does nothing but limit both characters.
    They only overlap by having the same name and being a nephew to Iris West. Otherwise they are completely dissimilar in terms of backstory and appearance. Hence why they can both co-exist. If overlapping names are a problem then Jai and Irey need a name change too.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    They only overlap by having the same name and being a nephew to Iris West. Otherwise they are completely dissimilar in terms of backstory and appearance. Hence why they can both co-exist. If overlapping names are a problem then Jai and Irey need a name change too.
    Wally and Wallace share the same name both in and out of costume, are both nephews to Iris West but also share the same costume, are both mentored by Barry, both have a history with the Teen Titans. Those are a lot of surface-level similarities for both characters to have when they are two of the most prominent speedsters currently appearing. These things don't matter individually but it's a lot of surface overlap because of how Wallace was originally constructed.


    If when she was originally created in the silver age Iris West spent a large chunk of her history as an eight-year-old speedster who was daughter to the Flash and one of them was headlining the main book then I'd fully agree that something would have to be done about Irey's name, especially if we were also talking about them sharing the same superhero name and costume. I don't think Jai and Jay are even pronounced the same and they have completely different last names. I also don't see Jai West running around in a Jay Garrick hat or anything like that to even remotely insinuate the similarities.
    Last edited by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper; 09-27-2021 at 10:27 AM.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    His origin might need a giant Donna Troyesque retcon, honestly, if he's ever going to be interesting.

  14. #74
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper View Post
    Wally and Wallace share the same name both in and out of costume, are both nephews to Iris West but also share the same costume, are both mentored by Barry, both have a history with the Teen Titans. Those are a lot of surface-level similarities for both characters to have when they are two of the most prominent speedsters currently appearing. These things don't matter individually but it's a lot of surface overlap because of how Wallace was originally constructed.

    If Iris West spent a large chunk of her career as an eight-year-old speedster who was daughter to the Flash and one of them was headlining the main book then I'd fully agree that something would have to be done about Irey's name, especially if we were also talking about them sharing the same superhero name and costume. I don't think Jai and Jay are even pronounced the same and they have completely different last names. I also don't see Jai West running around in a Jay Garrick hat or anything like that to even remotely insinuate the similarities.
    Jai and Irey West are named after Jay Garrick and Iris West-Allen, so yes, Jai and Jay are pronounced the same. The spelling is just different due to Linda's Korean heritage, I'd imagine. Anyway, Bart's a namesake too, both he and Barry are Bartholomew Allen.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    To me, the biggest problem with Wallace West is that his name is Wallace West and he's Iris West's nephew. So now Iris has a Black Wallace Kid Flash nephew and a white Wally Kid Flash nephew. If those two things weren't true, you could do just about anything with him. The only reason Didio could have had to do that was to make sure Wally was permanently erased from the DCU. Dude had such a mad-on for the Titans and the JSA. Thank goodness the new leadership feels the opposite way.

    I don't know what you do with him now. Let him adopt his middle name since he realizes there was a Wally before him, give him a new costume and code name since he now knows that Wally was both things already too, and happily keep him as a member of the Flash family. Same guy, same function, just not a complete and utter copycat. Only Didio...
    Middle name won't work, since both of them share the same one! They're both called Wallace Rudolph West. Of course that name sets up red nosed reindeer jokes too. Far from ideal.

    Maybe he should just be called Ace? It's part of his name Wallace, and the only other character called Ace in DC Comics to my knowledge is Batman's dog.
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  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Jai and Irey West are named after Jay Garrick and Iris West-Allen, so yes, Jai and Jay are pronounced the same. The spelling is just different due to Linda's Korean heritage, I'd imagine. Anyway, Bart's a namesake too, both he and Barry are Bartholomew Allen.

    Middle name won't work, since both of them share the same one! They're both called Wallace Rudolph West. Of course that name sets up red nosed reindeer jokes too. Far from ideal.

    Maybe he should just be called Ace? It's part of his name Wallace, and the only other character called Ace in DC Comics to my knowledge is Batman's dog.
    I'm pretty sure I remember reading an interview with Waid around the time they first showed up where he talked about how Iris was a pick from Wally's side and Jai was a name pick from Linda's side of the family. Despite it seeming like he was named after Jay. It was a long time ago so I could be wrong about that one.

    My issue isn't the name. It's the name WITH the superhero name WITH the costume WITH the same backstory elements. None of the other characters who share similar names have those problems either so I do find the comparisons to be more than a little unbalanced for reasons I feel like I've stated numerous times.

    I don't think he even needs to change his civilian name. I think a new code name and costume is enough to let him stand on his own. I think it more just shouldn't be both at the same time. With all of it right now though it is more than a bit much though when you compare both Wallys. You definitely can't say that to the same extent with Jai, Irey, or even Bart.

    I'd be cool with Ace. Going with "Ace West" as Kid Flash is different enough that it would work for me. I think I'd still prefer a costume change as well though.
    Last edited by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper; 09-27-2021 at 11:16 AM.

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