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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    The one thing I don't get (and never got) from Wallace is a distinct personality. I've complained about this before, and maybe not reading Teen Titans regularly prevents me from seeing it, but I don't see what traits he actually has. He's just a generic sidekick with default kid traits.
    He tries to do the right thing and calls out others when they cross lines, but does nothing to stop them. Called out Barry's sketchiness(to be fair, I don't think he could've done anything in that situation), Damian(everyone in TT called out Damian, but went along with his stupidity, except Roundhouse and the fanbase dislikes Roundhouse for his betrayal despite being 100% justified) and Slade(I can't hold this against him, Slade is scum and doesn't listen to anyone).

    Wallace needs an arc where he puts his foot down and backs up what he preaches.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    You could give him his own series as Kid Lantern.
    We already have Tai Pham for that. Plus Keli as Teen Lantern.

    Still with Wallace, until he’s an adult, Kid Flash is fine. Even if Irie is a Kid Flash too. No one’s going to confuse them for each other.
    Plus for Flash, we have Barry, Wally and Jay, Plus Avery all sharing the moniker.

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    He tries to do the right thing and calls out others when they cross lines, but does nothing to stop them. Called out Barry's sketchiness(to be fair, I don't think he could've done anything in that situation), Damian(everyone in TT called out Damian, but went along with his stupidity, except Roundhouse and the fanbase dislikes Roundhouse for his betrayal despite being 100% justified) and Slade(I can't hold this against him, Slade is scum and doesn't listen to anyone).

    Wallace needs an arc where he puts his foot down and backs up what he preaches.
    Thawne was part of the reason Wallace let Damian go as far as he did without stopping him sooner.

    Roundhouse had legitimate grievances against Damian but he went far beyond how he should've handled things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    We already have Tai Pham for that. Plus Keli as Teen Lantern.

    Still with Wallace, until he’s an adult, Kid Flash is fine. Even if Irie is a Kid Flash too. No one’s going to confuse them for each other.
    Plus for Flash, we have Barry, Wally and Jay, Plus Avery all sharing the moniker.
    As far as the Flash, though, it's just Wally.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think he's only Kid Flash now just because he was originally intended as a wholesale reboot, part of it was wanting to do a new, modern, Kid Flash and make the most of his existence after bringing OG!Wally back. At least that's how Williamson handled it.

    Wallace's problem is he's more tied to Barry of anyone in the Flash Mythos.
    I completely disagree and would go as far as to say that Wallace was ONLY made Kid Flash to cement Wally West into the identity of Kid Flash permanently and replace the original Flash version to make way for the same being done in other media. It's really that transparent. Even after Wally's Rebirth return, it's pretty clear now that it was Didio's intent to parade him around for a bit before character assassinating him and having him fully replaced by the Kid Flash version. Having him remain in the role when we now have Wally West back and leading the Flash book is a bad idea and only continues to diminish the original version at worst and makes it rediculous that we have a Flash and Kid Flash running around with the same names and backstories at best.

    As you said, in the Flash family he is most tied to Barry and that relationship is often hostile. Let him be in the Titans where he works best and change his superhero name because there's really no reason he needs to be Kid Flash on the titans.



    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    He doesn't need to be KF but as of right now is the character better positioned for it, for one. Also, the Flash family has a long story of accepting EVERYONE into their fold. Future Flashes, alternate Earth tragic Flashes, temp Flashes.. And then, we have an immediate member of the West family, with speed powers, who lost both his parents and happens to be black, and suddenly HE is the one who is not worthy of the Flash moniker/status/place in line of succession/whatever? The offices of this are terrible by themselves.

    Bart has no business being KF anyway, and Iris is not there yet. I totally maintain that the path forward is bringing Wallace further into the family, not the other way around
    Let's not act like this character hasn't been heavily pushed for the best part of seven years now at the expense of almost every other speedster. He's been the one most heavily featured in both the main Flash book and other material like Titans. He's sure appeared more than Bart or Jay since their returns and even when Wally appeared during that era it was mostly just to character assassinate him. Wallace has pretty much been the go-to Flash spin-off character for ages now and it would be nice if he could be put on the back seat a bit to give us a chance to do something with the others. Continuing to push him more at the expense of others does not make me want to see him as a bigger part of the Flash family.

    At least when Bart was Kid Flash there was a character reason for it. It was to show that Bart was starting to take the world and danger a bit more seriously and retrospectively is way more interesting than what has been done with Wallace over the last few years despite his numerous chances to become more interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Yes, it's VERY different. One is about removing him from the proper family of characters, the other is about cement him in it with a role particular to himself. Honestly don't know how you reached that conclusion there.

    And Flashes are not Robins.
    I legit don't understand how taking the name West from him isn't removing him from the family but giving him a different superhero name is. I guess Bart is no longer family now that he's not Kid Flash.

    Kid Flashes are 100% Robin equivalents in this regard though.
    Last edited by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper; 09-24-2021 at 09:15 AM.

  5. #50
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper View Post
    I completely disagree and would go as far as to say that Wallace was ONLY made Kid Flash to cement Wally West into the identity of Kid Flash permanently and replace the original Flash version to make way for the same being done in other media. It's really that transparent. Even after Wally's Rebirth return, it's pretty clear now that it was Didio's intent to parade him around for a bit before character assassinating him and having him fully replaced by the Kid Flash version. Having him remain in the role when we now have Wally West back and leading the Flash book is a bad idea and only continues to diminish the original version at worst and makes it rediculous that we have a Flash and Kid Flash running around with the same names and backstories at best.

    As you said, in the Flash family he is most tied to Barry and that relationship is often hostile. Let him be in the Titans where he works best and change his superhero name because there's really no reason he needs to be Kid Flash on the titans.
    I think that was more true during his New 52 existence than his handling during Rebirth.

    I don't think he's really been used that much when he's mostly just been in Flash and Titans...which is oddly true of Wally up until HiC, and Bart at least got YJ when he came back. I don't think that makes Wallace a "go-to" spinoff character. I don't think it's come at any characters' expense because he fulfills a character niche and role that we wouldn't see with other characters.

    Wallace is Kid Flash because he's the next generation Kid Flash.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think that was more true during his New 52 existence than his handling during Rebirth.

    I don't think he's really been used that much when he's mostly just been in Flash and Titans...which is oddly true of Wally up until HiC, and Bart at least got YJ when he came back. I don't think that makes Wallace a "go-to" spinoff character. I don't think it's come at any characters' expense because he fulfills a character niche and role that we wouldn't see with other characters.

    Wallace is Kid Flash because he's the next generation Kid Flash.
    It was pretty true of both eras. I believe that Williamson had the best intentions with Wallace and the rest of the Flash family but I think that it's clear that in retrospect with how things played out with Wally and how little the rest of the Flash family were even allowed to appear that editorial had very different intentions.

    Wallace had more appearances in the main Flash book than any other speedster by far (obviously aside from Barry) was in Titans for the entirety of Rebirth, featured in Deathstroke for a while, had appearances in Justice League. Wally was in exactly two Flash arcs and his time in Titans was cut short because he had to go murder some people and cover it up. Bart appeared in Young Justice ages after he was reintroduced in Flash War and didn't interact with Barry or any other member of the Flash Family until Williamson's final arc years later. Honestly, it isn't even about the number of appearances. I was just trying to point out that Wallace isn't exactly a victim in all this when he's had more than his fair share of page real estate for years when compared to other speedsters. Wallace was the only speedster aside from Barry who was treated with even a tiny bit of respect during this era by anyone other than Williamson and even then it's pretty clear that Williamson wasn't allowed to use the others as much as he wanted.

    I think Wallace would fulfill his niche better with a new codename. It's ridiculous having a Wally West Flash lead the Flash book with his failed replacement with the same name and backstory still running around as Kid Flash. Wally was the Kid Flash of the 50 to 80s and Wallace was an attempt to recapture that and diminish his time as Flash. Now Wally is back as Flash and we need to move on.
    Last edited by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper; 09-24-2021 at 10:07 AM.

  7. #52
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper View Post
    It was pretty true of both eras. I believe that Williamson had the best intentions with Wallace and the rest of the Flash family but I think that it's clear that in retrospect with how things played out with Wally and how little the rest of the Flash family were even allowed to appear that editorial had very different intentions.

    Wallace had more appearances in the main Flash book than any other speedster by far (obviously aside from Barry) was in Titans for the entirety of Rebirth, featured in Deathstroke for a while, had appearances in Justice League. Wally was in exactly two Flash arcs and his time in Titans was cut short because he had to go murder some people and cover it up. Bart appeared in Young Justice ages after he was reintroduced in Flash War and didn't interact with Barry or any other member of the Flash Family until Williamson's final arc years later. Wallace was the only speedster aside from Barry who was treated with even a tiny bit of respect during this era by anyone other than Williamson and even then it's pretty clear that Williamson wasn't allowed to use the others as much as he wanted.

    I think Wallace would fulfill his niche better with a new codename. It's ridiculous having a Wally West Flash lead the Flash book with his failed replacement with the same name and backstory still running around as Kid Flash. Wally was the Kid Flash of the 50 to 80s and Wallace was an attempt to recapture that and diminish his time as Flash. Now Wally is back as Flash and we need to move on.
    Williamson likely did have issues incorporating the rest of the Flash Family because of editorial.

    I think it makes sense Wallace made as many appearances as he did because his relationship with Barry was pretty important in the first half of the run and it was about establishing him as a hero while Wally was in Titans and occasionally coming back to the main Flash book for big event storylines.

    I mean, it's not like Wallace is even relevant at all to Wally's current book so I'm not sure if it's all that pressing an issue.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Speaking as a Wally West fan who dropped Flash after Barry came back, I think benching Wallace R West because of the back office politics that lead to the latter's creation would be in bad taste and runs the risk of falling into the same narrow minded favoritism that got Wally West in limbo for years. Yes, Wallace does not have as many stories as Wally but that doesn't mean he can't grow into a meaningful character over time. Characters should always be separate from the back office bs and favoritism. Look at Jason Todd, dude started off as a strawberry blonde Dick Grayson clone who was then reinvented as a tough street kid by a writer who hated the Robin and wanted you to hate him too then he was killed off via a phone poll and now he's been brought back, is a fan favorite, starred in one of the more popular DTV movies, video games, web comics and star of the Red Hood & The Outlaws. Wallace deserves the time and care to establish a niche for himself too.

  9. #54
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Well, I'm really, really opposed to getting him a new mantle. And I get it: he was supposed to be Wally, his origin was filled with racist stereotypes, Og Wally was in the crapper, etc, etc. There was no bigger critic to all of that than myself, and I know we all would very much like to leave this all behind us.

    BUT:

    This whole "what should Wallace new name/new powers/new uniform" be is just something that the dickiest Barry fans (or just Waly haters) would do here, once a month or so to get on our nerves. And honestly, right now I'm pretty much done with it. I have no interest in fanboy wars.

    So, to me, it goes like this: Wallace has his fans, his a West, he has superspeed. I think his being Kid Flash is just fine. His costume could have some further adjustments, but not that stray too far from KF, just stuff that highlights his personality a little better.

    As for character, what I would do is really simple: have Jay and Joan Garrick adopt him. Now, Jay never had either kids or a protegeé, and the dynamics between him and Wallace were really sound in Speed Metal. Wallace, OTOH, has no father and we know almost nothing about his mom. We barely know where he lives nowadays (is he still with Iris?). Having Jay adopt him would put him, as Jay, at the center of the Flash families of characters that are more connected to both Wally and Barry. It could give him a different outlook than just "I'm next in line", it could take the Garrick name to all those future Flashes we see once in a while in all those time travel storylines and i would make him still connected, but no more subordinate, to boith Barry and Wally.

    Wallace Garrick, Kid Flash. That's what I'd do.
    Actually, Jay never having kids was apparently retconned in the Stargirl Spring Break Special - there's someone called Judy Garrick now. Also, wasn't Bart previously living with Jay and Joan?

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Irey doesn't deserve the Kid Flash title any more than Wallace does so I'm not sure why she needs to bump him out of the role; especially since it's not like she held it before anyway. I'm all for Wallace graduating out of the Kid Flash role when he's ready but to cap like Irey deserves it more than him essentially because she's Wally's daughter is weak; because that's the only possible reason Irey has a better claim to the mantle.
    Based on Doomsday Clock, Irey was planned to be the new Kid Flash in 5G. There's a panel showing heroes past and present and one of them was a Kid Flash with a long ginger braid.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Wallace should lead a team of all the young speedsters. Jai already has a unique identity as the Turtle, Irey and Avery can develop new names, and they just all work together as a young Flash unit. they can use the team to re-establish individual speedster applications and/or abilities via the other forces by having them develop their own signature abilities over time.

    Wallace as Kid Flash - He's the leader, so his name has more meaning as the lead Flash of the the Kid speedsters. Speedster that specializes in speedforce embuing and engineering.

    Jai as Turtle - Stillforce speedster (via time manipulation).

    Irey as Inertia - she was impulse but with Bart back just give her the name of his long forgotten rival. she'll be a Speester specializing in phasing and vibration.

    Avery as G-force - Speedforce/Strengthforce hybrid, able to manipulate gravity to fly at Flash speeds.

    Have Wally be the Professor X to their X Men or the Batman to their Outsiders; he mentors and watches over them, joining them on missions from time to time.
    The Justice League of China's codenames are actually in Chinese, all text in that language is translated to English (shown in a different colour). Therefore Avery's codename isn't really Flash, it should be 閃, Shǎn. Therefore, she doesn't need a new name.
    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    All this thread is telling me is that the Flash franchise needs another book, at least crowed families like Batman and Green Lantern have more than one book for their characters to breathe.
    Actually, Green Lantern currently does not have more than one book. But yeah, a second Flash family title would help matters. Let's have something in the same format as Batman Urban Legends.

    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    There is no reason there can't be more than one Kid Flash. There are currently two Spider-men, two Batmen, two Supermen, two Batgirls, (on and off) two Robins the list goes on.

    Wallace has a great dynamic with Avery Ho (another Flash), so give them a mini and see how it goes.
    If you count the Justice League of China, then it's three Supermen and three Batmen. If you don't, then Avery wouldn't count either. Also, there's three Batgirls. Babs still counts as one too. There's also three Spider-Men, as Ben is taking over for Peter, Peter's only in the hospital so is only temporarily out of action, and of course Miles is still around.
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  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    This is the main problem when they keep creating knock off characters. Sooner or latter there are just too many to do something with all of them. There really needs to be no Kid Flash as long as Bart is around filling that young speedster role. The only way I see to salvage Wallace is to maybe change his powers. Instead of running fast he can think really fast or has fast reflexes.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    We already have Tai Pham for that. Plus Keli as Teen Lantern.
    Oh, you're right. I wasn't aware of that character.

    Okay, give him his own book as Crimson Tornado.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    This is the main problem when they keep creating knock off characters. Sooner or latter there are just too many to do something with all of them. There really needs to be no Kid Flash as long as Bart is around filling that young speedster role. The only way I see to salvage Wallace is to maybe change his powers. Instead of running fast he can think really fast or has fast reflexes.
    If anything, the new webtoon Wayne Family Adventures’ popularity, shows people love all these “knock offs” interacting.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    He could just remain a mainstay in Titans Academy and end up teaching there, like what happens with some of the XMen.

  14. #59
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper View Post

    I legit don't understand how taking the name West from him isn't removing him from the family but giving him a different superhero name is. I guess Bart is no longer family now that he's not Kid Flash.

    Kid Flashes are 100% Robin equivalents in this regard though.
    I'm not proposing changing his name to "Smith" here. A Kid Flash connected both to the Wests and the original Flash is firmly entrenched in Flash family. Hal Jordan's cousin Hal Jordan, aka Air Wave, is not firmly entrenched in the GL mythos. Bart is both an exception and from another time. That's not easilly repeatable.
    Last edited by BohemiaDrinker; 09-25-2021 at 06:39 PM.
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  15. #60
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    He could also just lead a team of Titans. Dare I say, Titans West?

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