Amazing Spider-Man 74 - Preview - LET'S GOOO!

[Spiderfan001]

Oh I know Peter isn't that callous. The writers on the other hand...

I..... I hate that you're right about this

[Dzika_Sowa]

I..... I hate that you're right about this

I know Spencer was Fixing things, but how exactly Harry was a problem? I mean, people liked that he got back and evolved as a character. Slott established a good cloning method with originals soul, so Spencer could just say that Harry's soul was split into two, he felt cursed because his other part was tortured by mephisto, and Strange's gamble freed his soul, it became one again.

Boom - we have original Harry intact.

It just seems not fair, that we have Ned Leeds alive and kicking, and Harry dead.

Edit: I just realised Norman can bring him back, with Otto's/Ben help. Wonder if they try this in the future.

[Spiderfan001]

I know Spencer was Fixing things, but how exactly Harry was a problem? I mean, people liked that he got back and evolved as a character. Slott established a good cloning method with originals soul, so Spencer could just say that Harry's soul was split into two, he felt cursed because his other part was tortured by mephisto, and Strange's gamble freed his soul, it became one again.

Boom - we have original Harry intact.

It just seems not fair, that we have Ned Leeds alive and kicking, and Harry dead.

Edit: I just realised Norman can bring him back, with Otto's/Ben help. Wonder if they try this in the future.

Have to disagree.

Pre-OMD Harry death was perfect and he never should have been brought back.Now he wasn't, and his soul is now free.

Clones having souls is the dumbest thing ever, it basically ruins death's already diminished value in the MU.Ben(who I think people want to have a soul) also shouldn't have a soul but he feels like he does, as in when he dies there's no heaven or hell.He just shuts down like a machine but he feels death like humans so.Same w/ harry.

BND Harry didn't have the charm, he was so bland to me.Harry Pre-OMD was much more interesting, BND Harry is like Spider-Gwen.Just reduces the impact of their death, much more for Harry.His death was done well, he died a hero.

God no, let him rest.No clones and no souls stuff, he dealt w/ enough.I was hoping they'd off Norman and hope they do after Beyond.I don't want Beyond writers to mess w/ Osborn's.

Ned Leeds had some stuff w/ the foreginer which hopefully is explored more.I don't know why they brought him back, or why Betty is pregnant.Hopefully they make a good story out of it.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Pre-OMD Harry death was perfect and he never should have been brought back.Now he wasn't, and his soul is now free.

I read that story as it came out and I always liked it since it was tragic and heartfelt. I wasn't a fan when Harry was brought back in BND, but they at least went somewhere with the character.

If killing off Harry is how they think they can restore DeMatteis' story to greatness, it's unfortunately a case of two wrongs not making a right, but in this case I'd call it four wrongs and change.

It only gives the readers validation, if that much, and in-universe it just makes the characters all the more miserable because someone who had come back, fashioned a life for himself and even fathered another child is now gone and everyone has to deal with that weight - once again.

I wouldn't mind having DeMatteis' story back in continuity, but this is definitely not how to do it.

[Spiderfan001]

I read that story as it came out and I always liked it since it was tragic and heartfelt. I wasn't a fan when Harry was brought back in BND, but they at least went somewhere with the character.

If killing off Harry is how they think they can restore DeMatteis' story to greatness, it's unfortunately a case of two wrongs not making a right, but in this case I'd call it four wrongs and change.

It only gives the readers validation, if that much, and in-universe it just makes the characters all the more miserable because someone who had come back, fashioned a life for himself and even fathered another child is now gone and everyone has to deal with that weight - once again.

I wouldn't mind having DeMatteis' story back in continuity, but this is definitely not how to do it.

It's not Harry though, BND Harry is not Pre-OMD Harry.And it feels that way, BND Harry feels weird.

Treating them as 2 different characters is the best thing, and it works for both.

Pre-OMD harry died saving Peter after snapping out of his bloodlust, BND Harry made a sacrifice to save his friend out of love.

They both were good(Pre-OMD is still much better IMO) but both's ends work for them.Now just kill Norman

[Dzika_Sowa]

Have to disagree.

Pre-OMD Harry death was perfect and he never should have been brought back.Now he wasn't, and his soul is now free.

Clones having souls is the dumbest thing ever, it basically ruins death's already diminished value in the MU.Ben(who I think people want to have a soul) also shouldn't have a soul but he feels like he does, as in when he dies there's no heaven or hell.He just shuts down like a machine but he feels death like humans so.Same w/ harry.

BND Harry didn't have the charm, he was so bland to me.Harry Pre-OMD was much more interesting, BND Harry is like Spider-Gwen.Just reduces the impact of their death, much more for Harry.His death was done well, he died a hero.

God no, let him rest.No clones and no souls stuff, he dealt w/ enough.I was hoping they'd off Norman and hope they do after Beyond.I don't want Beyond writers to mess w/ Osborn's.

Ned Leeds had some stuff w/ the foreginer which hopefully is explored more.I don't know why they brought him back, or why Betty is pregnant.Hopefully they make a good story out of it.

I understand Your point, but one can say, that Norman should be dead too. He was brought back in Clone Saga as a plot device.

I'm not saying that he should be dead now, but I believe, neither should Harry. Both characters had a good death, they were brought back and writers did interesting things with them. Killing Harry now feels like it was done just for Shock Value. Same with Flash, and of course Harry will be back someday... But it just feels pointless.

[Spiderfan001]

I understand Your point, but one can say, that Norman should be dead too. He was brought back in Clone Saga as a plot device.

I'm not saying that he should be dead now, but I believe, neither should Harry. Both characters had a good death, they were brought back and writers did interesting things with them. Killing Harry now feels like it was done just for Shock Value. Same with Flash, and of course Harry will be back someday... But it just feels pointless.

I agree, Norman should stay dead.

I agree that it's for shock value but I do think this run should have been his(BND Harry and Pre-OMD harry) end.It's just that the execution should have been better.

Flash was decent but I feel wasn't necessary.

I agree, it is pointless.But I think were done w/ harry and the Osborns.It's like the Joker, we're done.After Beyond hopefully we get classic Spider-man stories and new foes w/ old mixed in.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

It's not Harry though, BND Harry is not Pre-OMD Harry.And it feels that way, BND Harry feels weird.

Treating them as 2 different characters is the best thing, and it works for both.

Pre-OMD harry died saving Peter after snapping out of his bloodlust, BND Harry made a sacrifice to save his friend out of love.

They both were good(Pre-OMD is still much better IMO) but both's ends work for them.Now just kill Norman

That's just something the readers can look at this way, but in-universe no character is going to look at it like that. Liz isn't going to go "oh, well, it wasn't Harry anyway so it's all good!". It's something only the readers latch on to, and when the story itself has to deal with interpersonal drama it's only going to generate a domino effect of misery since in effect all of these characters lost a loved one the second time around.

[HypnoHustler]

It's not Harry though, BND Harry is not Pre-OMD Harry.And it feels that way, BND Harry feels weird.

I’m glad someone said this. BND Harry has never felt right. He felt like a regressive version of goofy 1970s Harry, not the tortured Harry that had gone through the events of ‘The Child Within’ and other DeMatteis classics of the early 1990s that brought real depth to the character. Maybe I’m in the minority, but one of the few things I was happy about ASM#74 is that BND Harry was revealed as a clone and swiftly killed off. Good.

I’m sure he’ll be brought back with some convoluted explanation in the next 5-10 years though.

[Spiderfan001]

That's just something the readers can look at this way, but in-universe no character is going to look at it like that. Liz isn't going to go "oh, well, it wasn't Harry anyway so it's all good!". It's something only the readers latch on to, and when the story itself has to deal with interpersonal drama it's only going to generate a domino effect of misery since in effect all of these characters lost a loved one the second time around.

Well readers are more important than anything else.
And I feel this gives a great opportunity for Liz to step up, Peter(and MJ) have been through this grief a lot.Most comic characters as popular as Peter have, but they should use this on Liz, I want to see how she deals w/ it.There's potential there.

I’m glad someone said this. BND Harry has never felt right. He felt like a regressive version of goofy 1970s Harry, not the tortured Harry that had gone through the events of ‘The Child Within’ and other DeMatteis classics of the early 1990s that brought real depth to the character. Maybe I’m in the minority, but one of the few things I was happy about ASM#74 is that BND Harry was revealed as a clone and swiftly killed off. Good.

I’m sure he’ll be brought back with some convoluted explanation in the next 5-10 years though.

Nailed it, I was going to make an explanation for this but you did a better job than I would have.All the years of Harry felt missing,like he just forgot (the most important to his character development) years of his life.

I hope not, we really are done w/ the Osborns.The new movie has Norman so I'm guessing that's why he's alive but Harry's not showing up till now so let him stay dead.

[Shunt]

Have to disagree.

Pre-OMD Harry death was perfect and he never should have been brought back.Now he wasn't, and his soul is now free.

Clones having souls is the dumbest thing ever, it basically ruins death's already diminished value in the MU.Ben(who I think people want to have a soul) also shouldn't have a soul but he feels like he does, as in when he dies there's no heaven or hell.He just shuts down like a machine but he feels death like humans so.Same w/ harry.

BND Harry didn't have the charm, he was so bland to me.Harry Pre-OMD was much more interesting, BND Harry is like Spider-Gwen.Just reduces the impact of their death, much more for Harry.His death was done well, he died a hero.

God no, let him rest.No clones and no souls stuff, he dealt w/ enough.I was hoping they'd off Norman and hope they do after Beyond.I don't want Beyond writers to mess w/ Osborn's.

Ned Leeds had some stuff w/ the foreginer which hopefully is explored more.I don't know why they brought him back, or why Betty is pregnant.Hopefully they make a good story out of it.

That's funny, because I'm a bit tired of the moronic concept of clones not having a soul. Not that I believe in the soul in the sense of an immortal spiritual matter, but when it's sort of a synonym of conscience, of course clones have one. For a start, identical twins are clones, and noone thinks the cell mass that detached from the slightly bigger one is a lesser human being.

I have no problem with suspension of disbelief, but to be honest, when it comes to conscience and "vital force", most of mainstream science fiction are doing the equivalent of having a world that is supposed to be modern... but happens to be flat.

[lordozone]

Mephisto: "Ok Peter, I will save your aunt May if you do a vasectomy !"

There, problem solved, no need to make a convoluted plan during 40 years who involve clones, twins, imposters and whatnot. Frankly the plan don't make any sense.

[Spiderfan001]

That's funny, because I'm a bit tired of the moronic concept of clones not having a soul. Not that I believe in the soul in the sense of an immortal spiritual matter, but when it's sort of a synonym of conscience, of course clones have one. For a start, identical twins are clones, and noone thinks the cell mass that detached from the slightly bigger one is a lesser human being.

I have no problem with suspension of disbelief, but to be honest, when it comes to conscience and "vital force", most of mainstream science fiction are doing the equivalent of having a world that is supposed to be modern... but happens to be flat.

Clones are not equal to conscience.I literally said in my post that Ben and BND Harry have a conscience, but clones really don't.

Again MU has heaven and hell, I agree souls don't make much sense in spirit matter in the real world but they exist in the MU.And clones having souls means death is meaningless.

Even if BND Harry had a soul his death makes sense, and he didn't feel like who Harry grew up into Pre-OMD.

[Shunt]

Clones are not equal to conscience.I literally said in my post that Ben and BND Harry have a conscience, but clones really don't.

Again MU has heaven and hell, I agree souls don't make much sense in spirit matter in the real world but they exist in the MU.And clones having souls means death is meaningless.

Even if BND Harry had a soul his death makes sense, and he didn't feel like who Harry grew up into Pre-OMD.

And I told you that twins are actual clones in the real world.

[xpyred]

Mephisto: "Ok Peter, I will save your aunt May if you do a vasectomy !"

There, problem solved, no need to make a convoluted plan during 40 years who involve clones, twins, imposters and whatnot. Frankly the plan don't make any sense.

A lot of it really doesn’t make sense. Stromm is the first example. During the time Harry was creating fake parent plan, Stromm would have been very much dead, masquerading as Gaunt and in Europe with the Scriers and Norman.

Secondly, I don’t buy the nonsense of “the jackets were different in certain issues.” I’m going to need actually proof that the Kindred jackets were different colors in the same issues. I went back and it just looks like multiples artists and colorists just not sticking to one set pattern.