Wonder woman’s membership in the trinity and big 7 is surface level.

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman has a pretty good rogues gallery actually. They are probably the ones with the most untapped potential out of DC comics. They are not inherently any sillier than all of the other villains. It's probably because most of them are women that don't fall into the "sexy femme fatale" archetype and/or tied to Batman that gives them such disadvantages.

Let's be honest though: outside of Batman and Superman, nobody in DC has a consistently well used rogues gallery as a whole. They each have a handful of great villains but nothing on Batman's level. Even with Batman, it's largely the same 20 or so villains that make it into the iconic other media adaptations that people remember, and of those the Joker and Harley are at the top. Remember Gearhead, Steeljacket, Orca, Echo, Signalman, the Spook, etc? Nobody really cares about them. Superman does even less well. The Flash would probably be the best after those two, but comics wise his rogues haven't been as good as they were under Johns. Sinestro is it for GL and we get **** all with everyone else. Black Manta and Orm are it for Aquaman. Captain Marvel just has Black Adam as a big name, and that is mostly going to be because the Rock is playing him.

So Wonder Woman only having Cheetah, Ares and Circe as the top ones people know doesn't make her that much different than anyone else.

Yet I can name them. I'd imagine if you polled the average comic fan they could do the same, at least far more of them than could name a non-Cheetah/non-Greek myth Wonder Woman villain.

I'd say odds are higher that the average comic fan who posts on places like this/goes into shops can name Giganta and Dr. Psycho over Absorbing Man. Dr. Psycho may even be a small household name at this point because he's on on the Harley Quinn show, and had an episode of Orange is the New Black named after him (and discussed in-episode).

By comparison, who really gives a **** about Absorbing Man?

[mathew101281]

Wonder Woman has a pretty good rogues gallery actually. They are probably the ones with the most untapped potential out of DC comics. They are not inherently any sillier than all of the other villains. It's probably because most of them are women that don't fall into the "sexy femme fatale" archetype and/or tied to Batman that gives them such disadvantages.

Let's be honest though: outside of Batman and Superman, nobody in DC has a consistently well used rogues gallery as a whole. They each have a handful of great villains but nothing on Batman's level. Even with Batman, it's largely the same 20 or so villains that make it into the iconic other media adaptations that people remember, and of those the Joker and Harley are at the top. Remember Gearhead, Steeljacket, Orca, Echo, Signalman, the Spook, etc? Nobody really cares about them. Superman does even less well. The Flash would probably be the best after those two, but comics wise his rogues haven't been as good as they were under Johns. Sinestro is it for GL and we get **** all with everyone else. Black Manta and Orm are it for Aquaman. Captain Marvel just has Black Adam as a big name, and that is mostly going to be because the Rock is playing him.

So Wonder Woman only having Cheetah, Ares and Circe as the top ones people know doesn't make her that much different than anyone else.



I'd say odds are higher that the average comic fan who posts on places like this/goes into shops can name Giganta and Dr. Psycho over Absorbing Man. Dr. Psycho may even be a small household name at this point because he's on on the Harley Quinn show, and had an episode of Orange is the New Black named after him (and discussed in-episode).
By comparison, who really gives a **** about Absorbing Man?

The Flash’s villains are pretty good to, between all the evil speedsters, the Rogues and Gorilla Grodd.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Good, iconic villains are hard to come by.

I'm neutral on Wonder Woman, but I think the trouble with her rogues gallery is the same problem with her character. She pulls from two different genres, mythology and feminism/socio-political issues.

I don't think these genres compliment one another, and make it harder to come up with a good foil, which isn't the easiest thing to create in the first place

[CosmiComic]

Wonder Woman has a pretty good rogues gallery actually. They are probably the ones with the most untapped potential out of DC comics. They are not inherently any sillier than all of the other villains. It's probably because most of them are women that don't fall into the "sexy femme fatale" archetype and/or tied to Batman that gives them such disadvantages.

Let's be honest though: outside of Batman and Superman, nobody in DC has a consistently well used rogues gallery as a whole. They each have a handful of great villains but nothing on Batman's level. Even with Batman, it's largely the same 20 or so villains that make it into the iconic other media adaptations that people remember, and of those the Joker and Harley are at the top. Remember Gearhead, Steeljacket, Orca, Echo, Signalman, the Spook, etc? Nobody really cares about them. Superman does even less well. The Flash would probably be the best after those two, but comics wise his rogues haven't been as good as they were under Johns. Sinestro is it for GL and we get **** all with everyone else. Black Manta and Orm are it for Aquaman. Captain Marvel just has Black Adam as a big name, and that is mostly going to be because the Rock is playing him.

So Wonder Woman only having Cheetah, Ares and Circe as the top ones people know doesn't make her that much different than anyone else.

No offense, but 20 is a huge number of well known villains. I don't think that really fits.

I'd say odds are higher that the average comic fan who posts on places like this/goes into shops can name Giganta and Dr. Psycho over Absorbing Man. Dr. Psycho may even be a small household name at this point because he's on on the Harley Quinn show, and had an episode of Orange is the New Black named after him (and discussed in-episode).

By comparison, who really gives a **** about Absorbing Man?

People really bashing Absorbing Man! I'd hazard to guess he's probably more prominent in the comics than many WW villains.

[John Venus]

WW's best foil is Ares; the embodiment of war, savagery and blood lust. Her opposite counterpart would be Cheetah; a woman so caught up in her jealousy against Diana that she is willing to bargain with dark forces to be able to stand as an equal with her.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, while her primary foundation is Greek mythology, she is not really bound by any specific genre. Her stories could be mythology, sci fi, espionage, war or even facing everyday street level crimes.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, she's quite versatile, probably moreso than Batman and maybe Superman

[Nyssane]

I'm seeing a lot of people who don't read Wonder Woman comics who think they're experts on comic books and Wonder Woman here.

The conversation of her villains being under-developed and under-utilized was fine and dandy five years ago, but DC Rebirth has stepped up finding motivations and niches for characters like Cheetah, Circe, Ares, Veronica Cale, etc. DC seems to have recognized the villain problem and rectified it.

So Wonder Woman only having Cheetah, Ares and Circe as the top ones people know doesn't make her that much different than anyone else.

I think people are selling Giganta short here. She's easily the second most recognizable villain after Cheetah, and most people who read (or watch) Justice League or other DC comics besides WW probably know of the character at the very least.

[SiegePerilous02]

Good, iconic villains are hard to come by.

I'm neutral on Wonder Woman, but I think the trouble with her rogues gallery is the same problem with her character. She pulls from two different genres, mythology and feminism/socio-political issues.

I don't think these genres compliment one another, and make it harder to come up with a good foil, which isn't the easiest thing to create in the first place

How are the two genres not compatible? Her entire premise is "flipping the script" on Greek myth's portrayal of a set of female characters, the Amazons. Greek myth has a lot of prominent and powerful women who often still have their perspectives ignored, so fleshing them out and combating the misogyny that is rampant in Greek myth goes along with feminism quite well.

No offense, but 20 is a huge number of well known villains. I don't think that really fits.

Compared to the number of villains Batman actually has though, it's not that much at all. It's still on a whole other level than everyone else at DC, but the whole stance that a hero can have an amazing rogues gallery overall is kind of a myth. Usually they each have a handful of major villains people know and that's it.

People really bashing Absorbing Man! I'd hazard to guess he's probably more prominent in the comics than many WW villains.

Yeah, but I'd say the few WW villains that reached iconic status are just as well known and more prominent than Absorbing Man.

There is also the fact that mainstream American comics are a niche thing to begin with, so him being prominent there is still nothing to write home about.

I'm seeing a lot of people who don't read Wonder Woman comics who think they're experts on comic books and Wonder Woman here.

Ikr, it's almost an automatic "dismiss" when we read that.

I think people are selling Giganta short here. She's easily the second most recognizable villain after Cheetah, and most people who read (or watch) Justice League or other DC comics besides WW probably know of the character at the very least.

Giganta is kind of weird because I don't know if people associate her with the WW franchise as quickly as Cheetah. I agree that as a character with a distinct visual, people are more aware of her than most other.

And I think not associating her with WW exclusively is a bad thing. Really wish they'd quit farming her out.

[Alpha]

People don't associate Absorbing Man with Thor either. He fights Hulk way more often (outside comics)

[Nyssane]

People don't associate Absorbing Man with Thor either. He fights Hulk way more often (outside comics)

I have to admit, I didn't realize Absorbing Man was a Thor villain and not a Hulk one.

[The Cool Thatguy]

How are the two genres not compatible? Her entire premise is "flipping the script" on Greek myth's portrayal of a set of female characters, the Amazons. Greek myth has a lot of prominent and powerful women who often still have their perspectives ignored, so fleshing them out and combating the misogyny that is rampant in Greek myth goes along with feminism quite well.

Because she answers to Gods and such, which aren't real, but inequality is (sadly).

[SiegePerilous02]

Because she answers to Gods and such, which aren't real, but inequality is (sadly).

All superheroes interact with things that aren't real, while also touching on real issues. Often those things can be intertwined in metaphor.

So I'm not seeing what your point is here.

[The Cool Thatguy]

All superheroes interact with things that aren't real, while also touching on real issues. Often those things can be intertwined in metaphor.

So I'm not seeing what your point is here.

The Greek Gods she works with are too far removed from modern day to work as a metaphor.

I don't deny that superheroes team up and fight things that aren't real all the time, and villains/creatures often serve as metaphors.

Cap pals around with Thor all the time, but when Cap addresses social inequality and the short comings of the American Dream, Thor finds himself busy elsewhere

[Frontier]

The Greek Gods she works with are too far removed from modern day to work as a metaphor.

I don't deny that superheroes team up and fight things that aren't real all the time, and villains/creatures often serve as metaphors.

Cap pals around with Thor all the time, but when Cap addresses social inequality and the short comings of the American Dream, Thor finds himself busy elsewhere

The amount of use the Greek Gods retain in fiction seems to indicate that they're not completely incapable of being relatable to modern day audiences...but even if they are, Diana's ostensibly not dealing with them 100% of the time.

She has human Supervillains. Like, more than she has Gods as villains. Her archnemesis is a rogue British archaeologist who turned herself into a Cheetah woman.

[Gaius]

I'm seeing a lot of people who don't read Wonder Woman comics who think they're experts on comic books and Wonder Woman here.

They also always got their completely original doctoral thesis ready at the moment for why "Wonder Woman is so hard to write".