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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Default Post-TROS; Force-Sensitive Institutions and Where They Go From Here?

    First off, I'm not super well versed on all the lore. I'm not even sure what is and isn't canon anymore so sorry if I'm asking a dumb question here.

    And I didn't see a thread for this, but if I missed it, apologies for repeating an old discussion.

    Anyway, when Rise of Skywalker ends where are we left? The Jedi Order is gone and many of their oldest, most important writings are destroyed.

    The Skywalker bloodline has ended with the death of Kylo.

    The Sith are destroyed as well, with no clear heir apparent to bring them back.

    The New Republic is seemingly destroyed (Coruscant and the Senate are all gone at least), as is the last remnants of the Empire, so there's no government left to uphold any of the old traditions.

    The only other Force users we know of who *might* still be alive are.....who? Grogu/Baby Yoda, Ashoka, maybe Ezra and Maul? Ashoka and Maul are well trained and highly experienced but both were abandoned by their Orders and never finished the higher level training I assume a Knight or Sith Lord would get. And that's assuming any of these people are still alive by the time of TROS anyway.

    So with the two main Force institutions gone, what steps up to fill the vacuum? We have other, smaller groups out there like the witches of Dathomir, but I don't know if any of them have what it takes to replace the Jedi and Sith Orders, or if they'd even want to.

    What do you think? After the Skywalker era, does someone rebuild the Jedi, and if so who? And if not, what happens to Force users? Is the galaxy full of people who trade knowledge freely, without the rigid organizational systems in place? Isn't that dangerous as hell and leaves people vulnerable to falling to the deep, scary extremes of the Force? Does a new order rise up, and if so what does that look like compared to the Jedi/Sith?

    Do we have any information at all on this? The Jedi existed for thousands of years, I feel like their final fall and collapse is a big gods damn deal and I'm curious about what comes after.

    And am I right in the Skywalkers being extinct? I don't recall any other kids being mentioned other than Ben Solo. Rey taking the Skywalker name doesn't count, she's not of the bloodline.
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  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Luke and Leia might still have cousins on their mother's side but I'm not sure that technically counts as the Skywalker bloodline.


    Coruscant presumably still exists but stopped being the capital after the Empire fell. The planet destroyed in TFA was Hosnian Prime, which was the new capital (I can understand the confusion, the buildings do look kind of like Coruscant). Tremmorow's script for Episode 9 actually would have taken place mostly on Coruscant.
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  3. #3
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Maul was killed by Obi-Wan in Star Wars Rebels. He finally found peace in bringing taken down by his old rival.

    I personally rather see the rise of smaller force user groups like the Night sisters as they tend of have much more unique uses of the force than the Jedi and Sith.

  4. #4
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    Here’s how I’d see it:

    -Yes, you have the Jedi re-founded and again become the dominant Force Using Sect… but you both reform them to be more connected to the common denizens of the Galaxy, and you “cheat” a bit to make it so Luke has some hidden students discovered who help Rey reform it. Basically. You do all the things that ST should have done with them and that The Last Jedi laughed at. Also, Finn would be an integral part of this - again partially to spite TLJ’s disinterest in him, but also because he’s the least compromised and damaged of the ST’s heroes - and he’d uncover some earlier reform movements the Old Jedi Order forgot about, including possibly an end to the celibacy idea.

    -The Sith should be dead - in literally every way: I’d have it revealed that even their Holocrons and left-over eldritch technology is falling apart and draining of power and knowledge. This is partially just so no one ever tries resurrecting Palpatine, but also because I think a good story idea would be to have whoever the new antagonistic factions are, they have a limited time to seek out Sith knowledge before it disappears forever.

    - Yes, have some new sects introduced or re-introduced: the Nightsisters and other Witches of Dathomir are a heavy favorite, but I’d also consider the Fallanasi as illusion specialists, and I’m thinking that the Jensaari could be redone and used as the new “cell” for both more Jedi… and new villains. I’d have the backstory for Jensaari now be that they’re basically a “Jedi Janissary” for the Sith from the ancient past - enslaved and neutral Force users made to be loyal bodyguards for paranoid Sith. I’d have it be that they were abandoned on a Death Planet millenia ago, and without the Sith to either cull their most powerful and ambitious members or to supply them with technology, they’re now a feudal society of “proto-Jedi” and “proto-Sith” with an ancestral cortosis armor and barely powered lightsabers.
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  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Luke and Leia might still have cousins on their mother's side but I'm not sure that technically counts as the Skywalker bloodline.
    That crossed my mind too. But the "long lost cousin nobody has ever mentioned ever" is a pretty terrible troupe, even by Star Wars standards. Bad enough they did it with Rey and the revelation that she's a Palpatine (did anyone ever imagine the Emperor getting down like that? I sure as hell didn't). I don't want to see the Skywalker line end, but if the only choice is to pull the "long lost cousin" thing, then it's better for the bloodline to be finished.

    Coruscant presumably still exists but stopped being the capital after the Empire fell. The planet destroyed in TFA was Hosnian Prime, which was the new capital (I can understand the confusion, the buildings do look kind of like Coruscant). Tremmorow's script for Episode 9 actually would have taken place mostly on Coruscant.
    Oh no kidding? I didn't know the New Republic changed capitol planets. Back in the old continuity they stayed on Coruscant and I guess I was just assuming that hadn't changed. Not like the new films spent any time dealing with the new government other than to say "They're useless and not doing anything, whoops they're all dead!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Maul was killed by Obi-Wan in Star Wars Rebels. He finally found peace in bringing taken down by his old rival.
    I had heard somewhere that Maul died in Rebels, but I wasn't sure if that was legit or not. Maul has survived some crazy stuff before, after all.

    I personally rather see the rise of smaller force user groups like the Night sisters as they tend of have much more unique uses of the force than the Jedi and Sith.
    Yeah, I don't see the return of a dual supremacy among Force organizations either. I mean, if that's what happens, then don't we end up right where we started? And what's the point of the whole thing if that happens?

    I think we're likely to see either a lot of small groups holding roughly equal standing, or one single organization that stands high above all others.

    I think it'd expand on the mythos in a really fun way if those smaller groups like the Night Sisters got more attention and development. How each of them approaches the Force could provide a lot more variety than we've ever had. I'd very much be down for such a treatment.

    At the same time, the idea of the gray Jedi seems to have been eating away at the edges of the franchise for a long time, and I can see that becoming the new, big organization in the galaxy. In a way we're kinda aimed in that direction already; Rey is a Palpatine using the Skywalker name, representing a combination of Jedi and Sith.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    -Yes, you have the Jedi re-founded and again become the dominant Force Using Sect… but you both reform them to be more connected to the common denizens of the Galaxy, and you “cheat” a bit to make it so Luke has some hidden students discovered who help Rey reform it.
    I'm sure some of Luke's other students survived, ones who were out on training exercises or something. I doubt *all* of the Jedi traditions would end. If nothing else the name "Jedi" is too popular and marketable for Disney to give up, so whatever happens I'm sure there'll be people called Jedi going forward.

    - Yes, have some new sects introduced or re-introduced: the Nightsisters and other Witches of Dathomir are a heavy favorite, but I’d also consider the Fallanasi as illusion specialists, and I’m thinking that the Jensaari could be redone and used as the new “cell” for both more Jedi… and new villains.
    Other than the Night Sisters I have no idea who these groups are but they sound interesting (were some of them in Clone Wars? I recently watched that for the first time). I'd be down for them getting some attention and holding important roles in the post-Skywalker franchise.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-26-2021 at 11:09 AM.
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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    I'd just pretend the sequels never really happened, just have an adult Grogu training a bunch of Jedi and go from there.
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    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I'd just pretend the sequels never really happened, just have an adult Grogu training a bunch of Jedi and go from there.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post

    Other than the Night Sisters I have no idea who these groups are but they sound interesting (were some of them in Clone Wars? I recently watched that for the first time). I'd be down for them getting some attention and holding important roles in the post-Skywalker franchise.
    Outside of the Nightsisters, those other groups haven’t appeared in the Disney-era canon, including TCW. They’re old features of the Legends continuity.

    The Jensaari always had the coolest look, since they wear lightsaber-deactivating armor shaped like animal or people, and were formed from a Dark Jedi with a Sith fetish… but who still made up his cult of mostly good Jedi.

    The Fallanasi were great at illusions, but were otherwise kind of boring.

    There was also a group called the Prophets of the Darkside, who would actually fit in well as Sith Eternal Cultists who survived the fall of Exegol.
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  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'd go far enough into the future where no one but perhaps Grogu could still be alive. Hundreds of years forward. That way the specifics of who rebuilt things and whatnot are not that super important anymore though it could still be referenced. Then I'd have the Jedi be split into factions, all who follow their own specific interpretations, not at all unlike different factions of Christianity. You could have the Skywalker school of Jedi for example, one that's more liberal with its restrictions. Could then have one that adopts a role more akin to the Old Republic order of Jedi, and so on and so forth. The Sith would be around again, not in anything close to the number of the combined Jedi numbers, but more than two, that rule being long abandoned after it failed (all that time, and it only produced in a Sith controlled empire that lasted a couple decades). Their still existing I would simply attribute to any random Jedi who fell to the dark seeking out old documentations of the teachings.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-26-2021 at 01:39 PM.
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  10. #10
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'd go far enough into the future where no one but perhaps Grogu could still be alive. Hundreds of years forward. That way the specifics of who rebuilt things and whatnot are not that super important anymore though it could still be referenced. Then I'd have the Jedi be split into factions, all who follow their own specific interpretations, not at all unlike different factions of Christianity. You could have the Skywalker school of Jedi for example, one that's more liberal with its restrictions. Could then have one that adopts a role more akin to the Old Republic order of Jedi, and so on and so forth. The Sith would be around again, not in anything close to the number of the combined Jedi numbers, but more than two, that rule being long abandoned after it failed (all that time, and it only produced in a Sith controlled empire that lasted a couple decades). Their still existing I would simply attribute to any random Jedi who fell to the dark seeking out old documentations of the teachings.
    That's what I'm saying when I say just give us adult Grogu as the head of the order, Yoda was 900 years old when he died so a 200 year old Grogu would put us far away enough from the sequels for them to be irrelevant and give us something new as well because outside of a few comics Yoda in his prime has never been seen.
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  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    VISIONS seemed to have a few interesting concepts into where things could go I think. I know it's technically not canon.....
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  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    The idea of doing a big jump into the future crossed my mind too. Getting past all the "rebuilding the Order and Republic" stuff (or whatever they do) and diving straight into the new world building does have a lot of appeal to me. Allows the franchise to gloss over the flaws, loose ends, and wrong turns of previous films. Lots of wiggle room to make changes and introduce new concepts. And keeping Grogu around establishes ties to the past. And of course, Baby Yoda is crazy popular so using him is good for the marketing (though I dunno how popular the adult version would be...)

    As long as the entire franchise doesn't shift into the new era and still puts out content from the past I'd be fine with a time jump of a couple hundred years. I like the fact that different shows have bounced around the timeline and I don't want to lose that completely. Hell, I'm still waiting for something Luke-centric set between RotJ and FA; he might be a galactic legend but we have rarely seen him at the height of his power and influence. I haven't anyway. Maybe the comics have gone into it, but I haven't read those.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    VISIONS seemed to have a few interesting concepts into where things could go I think. I know it's technically not canon.....
    What stood out to you?
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-26-2021 at 05:55 PM.
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  13. #13
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post



    What stood out to you?
    A couple of things stood out to me. In the duel had a Sith hunting other Sith. I'm curious to know what is his motive behind that. His saber was a solid beam making function like a traditional sword. The ronin and the elder plant Siths as being mere blood knights rather than just evil Jedi. That can justify having them around without an order.

    In Lop the lightsaber she inherent has engraving on the beam. I hope that becomes canon as that can open up saber designs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Here’s how I’d see it:

    -Yes, you have the Jedi re-founded and again become the dominant Force Using Sect… but you both reform them to be more connected to the common denizens of the Galaxy, and you “cheat” a bit to make it so Luke has some hidden students discovered who help Rey reform it. Basically. You do all the things that ST should have done with them and that The Last Jedi laughed at. Also, Finn would be an integral part of this - again partially to spite TLJ’s disinterest in him, but also because he’s the least compromised and damaged of the ST’s heroes - and he’d uncover some earlier reform movements the Old Jedi Order forgot about, including possibly an end to the celibacy idea.

    -The Sith should be dead - in literally every way: I’d have it revealed that even their Holocrons and left-over eldritch technology is falling apart and draining of power and knowledge. This is partially just so no one ever tries resurrecting Palpatine, but also because I think a good story idea would be to have whoever the new antagonistic factions are, they have a limited time to seek out Sith knowledge before it disappears forever.
    On your first point, I agree in principle but not execution. Rey should be the only Luke trained Jedi left, saving perhaps Grogu. To my mind, she should reform the Jedi Order by NOT reforming the Jedi Order. That is to say, we ditch the hierarchy and the dogma altogether. Instead, in the same way the Sith co-opted the Republic, Rey now co-ops the Rule of Two for the Jedi. Not in the literal sense of only two ever, but as the foundational principle of the new Jedi. Only two. A master, and an apprentice. No Council, no central temple.

    Each master takes their apprentice and wanders the galaxy. Kwai Chang Caine style (from the old version of television's Kung Fu, for those of you too young to know who that is), righting wrongs and upholding justice. When an apprentice is ready, the master takes a new one. When the new Knight is ready, they also take one. And the cycle repeats. The Order gets rebuilt slowly, but in a way that keeps it grounded to the people they serve. The Jedi stop being a monolithic cult and become an almost mythic force for life, justice and peace. You may never see one. Many don't necessarily even believe they exist. But when you do, know that you are not alone in whatever hardships you face.

    There is no longer a central authority for Jedi. Only a cooperative community formed through debate and consensus. There is no longer tired and trite dogma to hold back those who want or need familial or social bonds. If a student doesn't want to leave their family, the master can remain and teach them until they are prepared. Jedi can marry, have kids, and get support from both their families and their bonds within the Order.

    Obviously, under this model Rey's first apprentice MUST be Finn. Not only does RoS make this a foregone conclusion, but the character f-ing deserves it.

    On your second point, Yep. No Sith, ever again. They died with Palpatine and should be left to rot right alongside him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    On your first point, I agree in principle but not execution. Rey should be the only Luke trained Jedi left, saving perhaps Grogu. To my mind, she should reform the Jedi Order by NOT reforming the Jedi Order. That is to say, we ditch the hierarchy and the dogma altogether. Instead, in the same way the Sith co-opted the Republic, Rey now co-ops the Rule of Two for the Jedi. Not in the literal sense of only two ever, but as the foundational principle of the new Jedi. Only two. A master, and an apprentice. No Council, no central temple.

    Each master takes their apprentice and wanders the galaxy. Kwai Chang Caine style (from the old version of television's Kung Fu, for those of you too young to know who that is), righting wrongs and upholding justice. When an apprentice is ready, the master takes a new one. When the new Knight is ready, they also take one. And the cycle repeats. The Order gets rebuilt slowly, but in a way that keeps it grounded to the people they serve. The Jedi stop being a monolithic cult and become an almost mythic force for life, justice and peace. You may never see one. Many don't necessarily even believe they exist. But when you do, know that you are not alone in whatever hardships you face.

    There is no longer a central authority for Jedi. Only a cooperative community formed through debate and consensus. There is no longer tired and trite dogma to hold back those who want or need familial or social bonds. If a student doesn't want to leave their family, the master can remain and teach them until they are prepared. Jedi can marry, have kids, and get support from both their families and their bonds within the Order.

    Obviously, under this model Rey's first apprentice MUST be Finn. Not only does RoS make this a foregone conclusion, but the character f-ing deserves it.

    On your second point, Yep. No Sith, ever again. They died with Palpatine and should be left to rot right alongside him.
    I like the end result for the Jedi… But no. Luke should have some other students who survive. They fucked that up. No one actually enjoys him not managing to refund the Order, and to be honest, I think Rey stands better if she can be a “Champion” of the new Order rather than its founder and Mentor. I’d even have Finn get self-taught through a Holocron for a while; it would be a good way to develop him as the least comprised member of the ST cast, and to develop a plan for dealing with the problem left over from Reylo for Rey.

    I’d have it revealed that Luke met up with Kyle Katarn (who’s already weirdly been sort-of-recanonized) and a recanonized version of Mara Jade, and one or two others, including likely Jacen Syndulla, and have a “Praxeum” period of mutual learning, before a combination of death, marooning, and some carbonite stuff manages to put that “First Class” on ice…

    …Then have Rey and Finn find them. Rey as the “Lancelot” type of character, who is *a* leader, but not *the* leader, would also open the door to making her and Finn equals a little bit faster if he turns out to be a more natural leader - and honestly, after the trash of the ST, I think that may be needed. Heck, considering how anathema they treated having Rey actually learn things, it might make more sense for her to have trouble teaching people something that came natural to her.

    Plus, giving Luke a successful period in some manner before Rian Johnson set the whole damn thing on fire me as that *someone* can get the story Rey should have gotten - being Luke’s apprentice in an audience focused show, and not just fodder for Darth Affluenza.

    (And if I could go really crazy, I’d consider having Rey find Mara Jade’s long lost daughter after Mara’s tragic death, and have that little girl be her first real apprentice… and suggest the girl is Luke’s daughter. Might as well take a flaming dump on TLJ entirely, y’know?)
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