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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    There's also the characters of Star Wars: Fallen Order. Cal Kestis and his crew survived, and most were young enough they could very well still be around. Which includes the last known Dathomiri Sister.

  2. #17
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    I see Grogu taking the Dark Saber and end up leading the Mandos for centuries over being a Jedi.

    If he survives Kylo that is.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    There's also the characters of Star Wars: Fallen Order. Cal Kestis and his crew survived, and most were young enough they could very well still be around. Which includes the last known Dathomiri Sister.
    I forgot about them, but that just further makes me think that if we don’t get to see Luke having trained Rey to reform the Order, we should get an “Order 1.0” where we can see that from Luke with someone else, and that the more we “defang” the depressingly limited aspect of Luke’s story from TLJ, the better the franchise will be.
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  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Whatever shape the Jedi take, Luke has to get credit for founding it and being the first of the new Knights. The idea that Rey could get credit for that makes me a little sick to my stomach. And not because Rey is an awful character (I don't dislike her, though I find her bland) but because virtually every major theme and archetype baked into the DNA of Star Wars demands it.

    I like the idea of the Jedi being less of a monolithic institution and more like several distinct groups with a common heritage but different ways of doing things.

    You could take each surviving student of Luke's (I think we're all assuming there are some), and have each of them either create or inspire one of these Jedi branches. Like, I dunno, maybe Rey ends up taking a more gray Jedi/diplomatic bent, due to both Leia's influence and Luke's warnings about the Jedi being too dogmatic and inflexible. The next time a trade dispute gets out of hand maybe it's Rey's Jedi that go in to negotiate? Maybe Grogu combines elements of Luke's teachings with the way of Mandalore and creates a Mando-Jedi fusion of guardians; when the weak and downtrodden are in trouble it's Grogu's Jedi who fight for them. Ashoka, if she's part of the conversation, might end up creating a Jedi branch that's closest to the old Order, but without the crippling hypocrisy. When the galactic balance is threatened, that's when Ashoka's Jedi get busy.

    That makes Luke the godfather of a very different and new Jedi Order and it retains his legacy and legend. But it doesn't short-change the others either, who get to go down in history as the head of their respective group.

    Of course, if we're going to move beyond the Sith (and I'm fine with that), something else has to step up to be the yang to the Jedi yin. There was a novel, set immediately after Return of the Jedi, where Luke battles some new aliens who....the Force is blind to them? They could negate the Force? I forget the details, but they were a damned big threat to Force users. I assume that novel isn't canon anymore but maybe the idea could be taken up again and adjusted to fit the new Order? Seems more interesting than just a new group of dark side users, anyway.
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  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    There's also the characters of Star Wars: Fallen Order. Cal Kestis and his crew survived, and most were young enough they could very well still be around. Which includes the last known Dathomiri Sister.
    If I remember the game correctly Cal decided to not re-form the order after realizing it would make it an easier target for the Empire. I think a sequel is in development which might also explain why he wasn't around later on.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    If I remember the game correctly Cal decided to not re-form the order after realizing it would make it an easier target for the Empire. I think a sequel is in development which might also explain why he wasn't around later on.
    Well, right now he and company are alive.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Are those games canon? I'm not sure what is and isn't anymore.

    The Clone Wars and Rebels cartoons are canon, it seems. The live-action stuff on Disney+ like the Mandalorian is canon. I assume.

    Is there anything else? Novels, video games? What about the old movies nobody talks about, like Ewok Adventures? Or that cartoon set during the sequel trilogy?

    My Star Wars fandom went into a coma with the prequel films, was killed by TLJ and TROS, and has recently been brought back from the dead with Mando, but now I'm playing catch up on everything.....
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Generally most of the comics/games/novels/animations these days are considered canon, with some exceptions such as Visions, the Old Republic MMO etc.

    Some aspects of the old EU have been brought back in the new, although with some alterations to 'fit' with new stuff and not contradict it. Grand Admiral Thrawn for example in Rebels, Darktroopers, certain planets etc.
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  9. #24
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Whatever shape the Jedi take, Luke has to get credit for founding it and being the first of the new Knights. The idea that Rey could get credit for that makes me a little sick to my stomach. And not because Rey is an awful character (I don't dislike her, though I find her bland) but because virtually every major theme and archetype baked into the DNA of Star Wars demands it.

    I like the idea of the Jedi being less of a monolithic institution and more like several distinct groups with a common heritage but different ways of doing things.

    You could take each surviving student of Luke's (I think we're all assuming there are some), and have each of them either create or inspire one of these Jedi branches. Like, I dunno, maybe Rey ends up taking a more gray Jedi/diplomatic bent, due to both Leia's influence and Luke's warnings about the Jedi being too dogmatic and inflexible. The next time a trade dispute gets out of hand maybe it's Rey's Jedi that go in to negotiate? Maybe Grogu combines elements of Luke's teachings with the way of Mandalore and creates a Mando-Jedi fusion of guardians; when the weak and downtrodden are in trouble it's Grogu's Jedi who fight for them. Ashoka, if she's part of the conversation, might end up creating a Jedi branch that's closest to the old Order, but without the crippling hypocrisy. When the galactic balance is threatened, that's when Ashoka's Jedi get busy.

    That makes Luke the godfather of a very different and new Jedi Order and it retains his legacy and legend. But it doesn't short-change the others either, who get to go down in history as the head of their respective group.

    Of course, if we're going to move beyond the Sith (and I'm fine with that), something else has to step up to be the yang to the Jedi yin. There was a novel, set immediately after Return of the Jedi, where Luke battles some new aliens who....the Force is blind to them? They could negate the Force? I forget the details, but they were a damned big threat to Force users. I assume that novel isn't canon anymore but maybe the idea could be taken up again and adjusted to fit the new Order? Seems more interesting than just a new group of dark side users, anyway.
    I don't like the idea of every Jedi branch having it's start with Luke. He should definitely be responsible for one but definitely not the starting point of all of them. As someone said before Cal from the Fallen Order game is still alive and the entire point of the game is to obtain a Holocon that has a list of force sensitive children they can use to reform the Jedi Order. They have a night sister as part of their crew so there's a good chance that group can see a revival through them too.

    Ezra from Rebels is still MIA somewhere in the unknown regions. Who knows what's he been up to.

    After what Ahsoka has been through I seriously doubt she would bring about a traditional order even with the BS removed. I see Luke himself doing that moreso than her.
    Last edited by Immortal Weapon; 09-28-2021 at 04:48 PM.

  10. #25
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'd go far enough into the future where no one but perhaps Grogu could still be alive. Hundreds of years forward. That way the specifics of who rebuilt things and whatnot are not that super important anymore though it could still be referenced. Then I'd have the Jedi be split into factions, all who follow their own specific interpretations, not at all unlike different factions of Christianity. You could have the Skywalker school of Jedi for example, one that's more liberal with its restrictions. Could then have one that adopts a role more akin to the Old Republic order of Jedi, and so on and so forth. The Sith would be around again, not in anything close to the number of the combined Jedi numbers, but more than two, that rule being long abandoned after it failed (all that time, and it only produced in a Sith controlled empire that lasted a couple decades). Their still existing I would simply attribute to any random Jedi who fell to the dark seeking out old documentations of the teachings.
    I like that idea. Just jump far enough ahead that the episodes 7, 8, and 9 gang are all gone, there's no Empire or it's stand-in, the Black Order. There is the New Republic and they face a new threat that is not just another Empire copycat, maybe even an invasion from another galaxy. But Grogu is there. Maybe a statue of Din Djarin in the Jedi temple. Or just do the adventures of Grogu and Din's great grandson or great grand-daughter with flashbacks to what later happened with Din.
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  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Generally most of the comics/games/novels/animations these days are considered canon, with some exceptions such as Visions, the Old Republic MMO etc.

    Some aspects of the old EU have been brought back in the new, although with some alterations to 'fit' with new stuff and not contradict it. Grand Admiral Thrawn for example in Rebels, Darktroopers, certain planets etc.
    Yeah, I definitely caught the Thrawn mention in Mando, and a few planet names were familiar to my old fandom as well. I figured the old, pre-Disney stuff was no longer canon until someone said otherwise (haven't heard anything about Mara Jade, for example) and guys like Fav were just cherry picking the old stuff they liked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I don't like the idea of every Jedi branch having it's start with Luke. He should definitely be responsible for one but definitely not the starting point of all of them.
    He doesn't have to be considered the founder/influence for *every* branch, that's fine, but IMO Luke has to be considered the founder for the new Jedi Order overall. Some branches can give him no credit for their specific creation, hell a few branches can straight up disregard Luke completely. But big picture, it's gotta be Luke who ushers in the next great era of Force users.

    That's all I ask; that Luke's legacy, place in history, and impact on the future of the Jedi be respected.

    Ezra from Rebels is still MIA somewhere in the unknown regions. Who knows what's he been up to.
    I'm hoping we see him in one of the D+ shows. I'm only on season 2 of Rebels now, and the show is weird to me; I like the concept and the characters are, on paper, interesting and compelling....but the show just does not do it for me like Clone Wars did. I'm pushing through it so I can see what happens to established characters (like Ashoka) but I'm not loving it so far. I hear Ezra takes a dark turn later on, and that might be interesting, and I expect a live-action debut would easily win me over; I never cared about Clone Wars until Ashoka's appearance on Mando and that got me to binge all seven seasons.

    After what Ahsoka has been through I seriously doubt she would bring about a traditional order even with the BS removed. I see Luke himself doing that moreso than her.
    Maybe? I don't feel like I've seen enough of her after leaving the Order to really know. I know the Martez (?) sisters say she acts like they imagined the Jedi would/should, and in the few appearances I've seen of her in Rebels and Mando, she seems to act like a fairly traditional Jedi and uphold their ideals (if not their dogma) but I really couldn't say what a branch created by her would look like.
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  12. #27
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post



    I'm hoping we see him in one of the D+ shows. I'm only on season 2 of Rebels now, and the show is weird to me; I like the concept and the characters are, on paper, interesting and compelling....but the show just does not do it for me like Clone Wars did. I'm pushing through it so I can see what happens to established characters (like Ashoka) but I'm not loving it so far. I hear Ezra takes a dark turn later on, and that might be interesting, and I expect a live-action debut would easily win me over; I never cared about Clone Wars until Ashoka's appearance on Mando and that got me to binge all seven seasons.
    Ezra becomes darker in season 3. There's also a time skip in that season.

    I'm the same way. I didn't like Rebels as much as I did Clone Wars but I still enjoyed the show.



    Maybe? I don't feel like I've seen enough of her after leaving the Order to really know. I know the Martez (?) sisters say she acts like they imagined the Jedi would/should, and in the few appearances I've seen of her in Rebels and Mando, she seems to act like a fairly traditional Jedi and uphold their ideals (if not their dogma) but I really couldn't say what a branch created by her would look like.
    In her appearances in Rebels she didn't want to be identified as a Jedi. It was the same with Mando even if she never correct him about being a Jedi. If she doesn't see herself as a Jedi I can't see her passing down the traditional ways. Ahsoka is the closest character to make grey Jedi an actual thing if Lucasfilm chooses to.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    BTW even after Disney bought SW they didn't really fully shift the EU around until Fall 2014, when Rebels and the new set of novels and comics started coming out, along with TFA's pre-release marketing. Dark Horse still released several titles from 2012 to 2014, including a Star Wars monthly and an adaptation of one of Lucas's older scripts for the original movie. However it should be noted that one of their last ones, Son of Dathomir, is considered canon since it was adapted from an unproduced Clone Wars episode (Several of the unfinished episodes I think are still canon, or were re-worked into other formats like Dark Disciple).
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Ezra becomes darker in season 3. There's also a time skip in that season.

    I'm the same way. I didn't like Rebels as much as I did Clone Wars but I still enjoyed the show.





    In her appearances in Rebels she didn't want to be identified as a Jedi. It was the same with Mando even if she never correct him about being a Jedi. If she doesn't see herself as a Jedi I can't see her passing down the traditional ways. Ahsoka is the closest character to make grey Jedi an actual thing if Lucasfilm chooses to.
    I’m 90% certain that the reason for Ahsoka insisting she wasn’t a Jedi was primarily as a back door escape route for the character based off the whole “There can be no other Jedi by the time ROTJ happens!” idea that Rebels was reportedly launched with… and one that Filoni, Favreau, and even perhaps more of LFL felt free to ignore once they realized the full implications of how the franchise was shaping up around the Jedi.
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  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    In her appearances in Rebels she didn't want to be identified as a Jedi. It was the same with Mando even if she never correct him about being a Jedi. If she doesn't see herself as a Jedi I can't see her passing down the traditional ways. Ahsoka is the closest character to make grey Jedi an actual thing if Lucasfilm chooses to.
    I know she says she's not a Jedi, but she *acts* like one. That's what I mean; if she were to create/inspire a branch of the new Jedi Order I could see its adherents following a lot of the old "honor, service, sacrifice" behavior models of the Jedi, if not the specific dogma and traditions, as Ashoka seems to be.

    Does that make sense? A Jedi by any other name, as it were?

    And maybe I'm totally wrong on that. Like I said, I don't feel like I've seen enough of her to really know. But from the few episodes where she has shown up, she might not call herself Jedi but she sure as hell carries herself like one (and splits words like one too; t'was very Jedi to not tell Din she's not a Jedi and let him think what he will ). That's all I meant; an Ashoka Jedi branch might act closer to what we expect of Jedi, while a Grogu branch might have a lot of Mandalorian influences, and a Dathomiri branch would be a lot more....Halloween-y.

    And of course, making allowances for how things would change and evolve over the years, with a big time jump. I'm talking real broad stroke stuff yknow?

    Now, the gray Jedi....I thought those just were Jedi who dabbled in the dark side but apparently it also means a Force user with no association with a institution. That definitely fits. Does she also dabble in the dark side at some point too?
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