The future (?) Of the Punisher?

[babyblob]

Anyone who thinks Frank is a hero and does the Right thing to start with is already a bit off. They are not going to stop using his symbol or go "Frank killed 2000 people but the 2001st guy he killed has a sad back story so He is not my hero anymore."

He doesnt need to kill a so called sympathetic criminal for people to see that what he does is wrong and bad because it is wrong and bad no matter what.

[FFJamie94]

I think a story like that Dirty Harry sequel where a police force mimic the techniques used by Harry would translate well to a Punisher story. I don’t know how well it would go down with Disney if Marvel start portraying Police as murderers, but I think you take the idea of a group of People who become their own Punisher force while also portraying as Frank as a deeply broken man, one has crossed the line with no road to redemption and he has to look at why he is right and they are wrong, basically taking a morally grey approach, that could work.

Or you could just go crazy and have Frank go to Space where he has to fight Aliens and stuff. Get a team up between Punisher and Star Lord.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Anyone who thinks Frank is a hero and does the Right thing to start with is already a bit off. They are not going to stop using his symbol or go "Frank killed 2000 people but the 2001st guy he killed has a sad back story so He is not my hero anymore."

He doesnt need to kill a so called sympathetic criminal for people to see that what he does is wrong and bad because it is wrong and bad no matter what.

...so the answer is to never depict him in the active wrong?

I disagree. Introducing actual shades of grey makes for better story telling, and could high light how much a hero he isn't.

Just saying 'Not a hero' isn't enough.

It's long overdue to demonstrate that.

Actually examine the damage that a man like Castle would leave in his wake.

[charliehustle415]

They should just make him a villain.

Have like a giant street level crossover event where the Punisher is done with heroes and villains alike because each feed into one another and he tries to kill them all.

It would be cool to see an actual capable street level villain that has the drive and skill to actually take on Marvel heroes.

Once he's a villain these white supremacist and their ilk have no excuse anymore when they use a villains iconography.

I mean in all seriousness Frank is a bygone concept that comes from the days of Death Wish and Bernhard Goetz; a white man's power fantasy.

Either make him a villain or sunset him because when fantasy starts to become reality we have a real problem on our hands.

[ed2962]

I think a story like that Dirty Harry sequel where a police force mimic the techniques used by Harry would translate well to a Punisher story. I don’t know how well it would go down with Disney if Marvel start portraying Police as murderers, but I think you take the idea of a group of People who become their own Punisher force while also portraying as Frank as a deeply broken man, one has crossed the line with no road to redemption and he has to look at why he is right and they are wrong, basically taking a morally grey approach, that could work.

Or you could just go crazy and have Frank go to Space where he has to fight Aliens and stuff. Get a team up between Punisher and Star Lord.

We sorta had this in Garth Ennis's first story. There was a sub-plot with vigilantes who were inspired by the Punisher by the end of the story, Frank shoots them. I can't remember the exact dialogue but they say something like, "But we're just doing what you do...why are you mad?" And he goes, "No. Cuz I said so."


We did have Ghost Buster Punisher and FrankenCastle....

[Iron Maiden]

Ya call me the problem all you want. I don't wear my Punisher t shirts while hating on people and spreading hate. I have a Punisher logo on my car...its not there because I want to show how much I love America or what side of the political line I'm on. I have the logo on my car because I love Frank Castle and have been a fan since I was born. What a certain side of political opinions has done with the Punisher logo and more is awful.

You gonna call me a snowflake as well? Please by all mean go ahead I have thicker skin than most.

I miss having a Punisher comic every month and because of right wing freaks we don't have one and may not have one for a long time.

End rant.

[Iron Maiden]

...so the answer is to never depict him in the active wrong?

I disagree. Introducing actual shades of grey makes for better story telling, and could high light how much a hero he isn't.

Just saying 'Not a hero' isn't enough.

It's long overdue to demonstrate that.

Actually examine the damage that a man like Castle would leave in his wake.

They should have a story where he kills an innocent guy and then turns himself in.

[Iron Maiden]

They should just make him a villain.

Have like a giant street level crossover event where the Punisher is done with heroes and villains alike because each feed into one another and he tries to kill them all.

It would be cool to see an actual capable street level villain that has the drive and skill to actually take on Marvel heroes.

Once he's a villain these white supremacist and their ilk have no excuse anymore when they use a villains iconography.

I mean in all seriousness Frank is a bygone concept that comes from the days of Death Wish and Bernhard Goetz; a white man's power fantasy.

Either make him a villain or sunset him because when fantasy starts to become reality we have a real problem on our hands.

I would agree with this....so you also get the Bill Murray standing ovation. (which is a zillion times better than a slow clap...which could be a disease )

[charliehustle415]

I would agree with this....so you also get the Bill Murray standing ovation. (which is a zillion times better than a slow clap...which could be a disease )

LMAO, who doesn't love the Murray

[babyblob]

...so the answer is to never depict him in the active wrong?

I disagree. Introducing actual shades of grey makes for better story telling, and could high light how much a hero he isn't.

Just saying 'Not a hero' isn't enough.

It's long overdue to demonstrate that.

Actually examine the damage that a man like Castle would leave in his wake.

I could care less if they show him doing something as you put it "Actively Wrong." Because everything he does is wrong to start with.

But most people who want this kind of story dont seem to be going at it from a story telling perspective but going at it in a if they show him doing bad like killing a sympathetic criminal or collateral damage it will change how people look at him. It will not change that in any way. The people on the far right who use his symbol dont read his comics to start with. The people who do read his comics and like him as a character or view him as a hero will not have that changed because of a criminal with a sad story or an innocent being killed.

So do a story like you are talking about. It could be fun to read but at the end of the day wont change anyones mind.

I agree with Charliehustle make him a flat out villain or get rid of him. Because he is a character that I think is not working in the format he is in. A mass serial killer that hangs out with Spiderman and Daredevil and they all chill like it is okay. I mean hell in Civil War he kills people in front of Captain America. not in self defense but in cold blood. Yea Cap beats the hell out of him but does he turn him over to the police? Nope. It is all just dumb. Punisher by himself works. I enjoy Punisher Max. But I hate the team up stories.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I could care less if they show him doing something as you put it "Actively Wrong." Because everything he does is wrong to start with.

You dont seem to be going at it from a story telling perspective but going at it in a if they show him doing bad like killing a sympathetic criminal or collateral damage it will change how people look at him. It will not change that in any way. The people on the far right who use his symbol dont read his comics to start with. The people who do read his comics and like him as a character or view him as a hero will not have that changed because of a criminal with a sad story or an innocent being killed.

So do a story like you are talking about. It could be fun to read but at the end of the day wont change anyones mind.

I agree with Charliehustle make him a flat out villain or get rid of him. Because he is a character that I think is not working in the format he is in. A mass serial killer that hangs out with Spiderman and Daredevil and they all chill like it is okay. I mean hell in Civil War he kills people in front of Captain America. not in self defense but in cold blood. Yea Cap beats the hell out of him but does he turn him over to the police? Nope. It is all just dumb. Punisher by himself works. I enjoy Punisher Max. But I hate the team up stories.

I'm looking at it from a narrative point of view.

Saying "I'm no hero" is a God damn cliche and has been for decades. Instead of having him kill uber monsters who eat babies, how about kids who just made the wrong choices?

Show the trauma of people who witness his slaughter? Maybe focus on how minority communities feel about the police allowing a white mass murderer to get away with the **** he does?

When Marvel actually does some stories about the logical damage done by Castle, things might change. Just because they wouldn't change everyone's mind doesn't mean they wouldn't change anyone's mind.

[K7P5V]

We sorta had this in Garth Ennis's first story. There was a sub-plot with vigilantes who were inspired by the Punisher by the end of the story, Frank shoots them. I can't remember the exact dialogue but they say something like, "But we're just doing what you do...why are you mad?" And he goes, "No. Cuz I said so."


We did have Ghost Buster Punisher and FrankenCastle....

Great ending (IMHO):

[The Cool Thatguy]

They should have a story where he kills an innocent guy and then turns himself in.

Eh, that's too cliche, IMO.

I'd rather they examine the damage he does regardless of the guilt of his victims

[FFJamie94]

Eh, that's too cliche, IMO.

I'd rather they examine the damage he does regardless of the guilt of his victims

Maybe have an issue which deals with the family of someone he killed. With the son wanting revenge on Frank and later returning to try and kill him. (Could make the Son like 20).

[The Cool Thatguy]

Maybe have an issue which deals with the family of someone he killed. With the son wanting revenge on Frank and later returning to try and kill him. (Could make the Son like 20).

I'm certain someone's going to point out that they've done that before. Did it with the Elite and his son.

I'ma get ahead of that and point out that they made the kid a hobo murdering sociopath, thus removing any sympathy.