Movie Remo Williams vs Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[MichaelC]

Movie Remo Williams vs Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Beadle]

I realise ‘Remo’ is an anagram of ‘more’, but will this current trend end?

(Nothing against this particular Rumble specifically, of course.)

[big_adventure]

If this is just show Buffy, Remo should be a fair bit faster, getting close to bullet-timer range there by the end. And he's certainly capable of hurting Buffy, even just by taking away her spike and stabbing her with it.

He's not THAT much faster though, and she's stronger, so he doesn't want to be eating hits from her. I'd give Remo the majority thanks to the speed edge, but Buffy should win some thanks to being stronger. Remo needs to land multiple hits to drop Buffy, she needs fewer to do the same to him.

[Sharpandpointies]

If this is just show Buffy, Remo should be a fair bit faster, getting close to bullet-timer range there by the end. And he's certainly capable of hurting Buffy, even just by taking away her spike and stabbing her with it.

In the movie, while Chiun is explicitly a bullet-timer, Remo is an aim-dodger. He actually lays out how he dodges bullets at one point.

And his aim-dodging is effectively limited to 'shots from a revolver at close range'.

So he's a fair bit below a bullet-timer, I figure. I don't think we have anything to even put Remo at CBPH in the movie.

[Shellhead]

In seven seasons of Buffy, it seemed like guns were practically non-existent in Sunnydale. Whoops, looks like I was wrong:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer

I guess Buffy must have done her fair share of aim-dodging.

[big_adventure]

In the movie, while Chiun is explicitly a bullet-timer, Remo is an aim-dodger. He actually lays out how he dodges bullets at one point.

And his aim-dodging is effectively limited to 'shots from a revolver at close range'.

So he's a fair bit below a bullet-timer, I figure. I don't think we have anything to even put Remo at CBPH in the movie.

Alright, that's fair. He and Chuin did say what Remo's cues were when he was dodging Chuin's shots: he heard the flexor tendon in his finger on the trigger when Chuin was sneak-attacking him, then he saw the flexing when he turned around to face Little Father. That said, Chuin is significantly faster than Remo and thus ought to be hard to purely aim-dodge, even if you know that the person across from you is shooting at you. That's why my head canon* counted the feat as BT. It's certainly not argued against when Remo dodges bullets point-blank in the setup to the climax, though that can also easily be called aim-dodging.

I definitely won't fight for ground on that hill, however.

* Note: head cannon.jpg

[Sharpandpointies]

Alright, that's fair. He and Chuin did say what Remo's cues were when he was dodging Chuin's shots: he heard the flexor tendon in his finger on the trigger when Chuin was sneak-attacking him, then he saw the flexing when he turned around to face Little Father. That said, Chuin is significantly faster than Remo and thus ought to be hard to purely aim-dodge, even if you know that the person across from you is shooting at you. That's why my head canon* counted the feat as BT. It's certainly not argued against when Remo dodges bullets point-blank in the setup to the climax, though that can also easily be called aim-dodging.

I definitely won't fight for ground on that hill, however.

* Note: head cannon.jpg

Ah, the head-cannon. Of course. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

In seven seasons of Buffy, it seemed like guns were practically non-existent in Sunnydale. Whoops, looks like I was wrong:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer

I guess Buffy must have done her fair share of aim-dodging.

The times that have actually been presented of Buffy 'aim-dodging' were more her rolling for cover while Darla basically emptied a couple of pistols in her general direction.

But she's fast enough to catch crossbow bolts loosed from behind her at close range, which is...pretty fast.

[Captain Smith]

Guns weren't big in Buffy. This common in many of the peak humanish kind of shows as you don't want the hero to get shot or the villain easily eliminated by a John Wick barrage. Buffy did bend a gun barrel once. She also used an anti-tank missile on some supernatural dude who thought he was not killable by any weapon forged by man. He got blown up by a woman and believing in the no limits fallacy - as if he could stand under an H-bomb.

[BitVyper]

Generally in the Buffyverse, guns aren't good for much more than slowing most monsters down or briefly incapacitating them, whereas vampires have papier mache ribcages and can be destroyed instantly if you poke them with some wood. That was kind of their excuse to keep guns to a minimum. Personally I'd also think that, as a monster, guns kind of just draw attention that most of them avoid.

Anyway, I don't know who Remo is, but...

And he's certainly capable of hurting Buffy, even just by taking away her spike and stabbing her with it.

Really want to see him pick up Spike and attack her with him.

[Captain Smith]

In most shows, the monster isn't powered by air or a blood supply. Thus, the typical shooting them repeatedly in the chest accomplished little. However, the monster being shown to be composed of material that show gunfire damage suggests that high powered rounds to the head would eliminate them (assuming they need a brain). Some monster folks have explicitly ignored head shots but most wouldn't.

About speed - is Buffy as fast as the vampires? I recall Angel speeding through a police station and not being seen. From the Remo movie, if she is that fast, he can't match.

[BitVyper]

Buffy's generally "crossbow-time," so certainly superhuman, at least. I can't remember anything about a police station, but the Angel series tended to have a lot of nebulous blink-and-you-missed-it type feats, so I imagine he could stealth his way through pretty quick as a feature of that, but probably not like instantly passing through the whole station so fast that he's invisible. Connor could pull off the same type of tricks occasionally, and he was pretty clearly demonstrated to be sub-slayer when Faith smacked him around.

[Sharpandpointies]

Let's not forget we don't actually work with the idea of 'Buffy fights Angel, who has speedfeats, so Buffy should be just as fast.' If we went with that, Shiva would be a high-end bullet-timer.

[BitVyper]

I mean the closest I came to saying that is that Faith gave Connor a humiliating beatdown (actually I think two?). In that fight she specifically dodged attacks and landed counters on him. Since her powerset is a literal photocopy of Buffy's, frequently demonstrated as such, it's one of many details corroborated by Buffy doing things like a blind catch on a crossbow.

[Sharpandpointies]

I mean the closest I came to saying that is that Faith gave Connor a humiliating beatdown (actually I think two?). In that fight she specifically dodged attacks and landed counters on him. Since her powerset is a literal photocopy of Buffy's, frequently demonstrated as such, it's one of many details corroborated by Buffy doing things like a blind catch on a crossbow.

Not saying you said that. I'm just making a note due to the general nature of Captain Smith's question:

About speed - is Buffy as fast as the vampires? I recall Angel speeding through a police station and not being seen. From the Remo movie, if she is that fast, he can't match.

Totally fine myself with Buffy being someone who can catch a crossbow bolt loosed at her back. She actually has feats for such, as noted.

Its when we get into 'Slayers beat up people with speedfeats when those people don't actually show the same sort of speed in the fights' that we run face-first into Rumbles' Rules. Like, I do remember there being some actual film-speed things happening in the TV show Angel (indeed, in the police station, which I believe is the feat to which Captain Smith refers) which if is his norm would give him some pretty impressive speed. But that feat doesn't necessarily transfer to Buffy because she can beat up Angel.

That's all I'm saying - not pointing fingers or anything. ^_^