JLU Amazo vs What If Ultron

[Sophicles]

JLU Amazo in his golden form takes on What If's Ultron with the Infinity Stones.

Who wins?

[Cronus]

Should we assume What If Ultron can bounce JLU Amazo's telepathy?

[Twickster]

Did JLU Amazo have offensive telepathy? I can't recall.

In any case, I think JLU Amazo's biggest offensive feat is teleporting Oa, but Ultron should no-sell that easily. If it comes to actual damage-dealing, all of his feats are off-screen, which means Ultron's planet-busting comes out ahead.

At the very least, Ultron can dimension dump, and Amazo has no feats against that.

This assumes, of course, that Amazo no longer has his "power absorbing" ability - it would be a stomp in his favor otherwise.

[Jaden Korr]

Way too powerful. And even if Amazo had his power absorption he never had feats of it working against something as crazy as this.

Ultron was casually destroying solar systems, ate a galaxy at one point, and punching The Watcher so hard he was changing the fabric of reality with each blow.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Is there any particular reason that JLU Amazon couldn’t blitz this Ultron and phase the stones out of him?

He does have Martian Manhunter and Flash’s power set after all.

[Jaden Korr]

Pretty sure he's massively FTL himself. We see that when he grows to the size of galaxy, and isn't rendering himself immobile as a result. And he continues to fight The Watcher despite the size and scale difference. So, it's definitely something he can do in a fight.

[big_adventure]

Is there any particular reason that JLU Amazon couldn’t blitz this Ultron and phase the stones out of him?

He does have Martian Manhunter and Flash’s power set after all.

Well, he's going to be made of Vibranium, which should cancel any of Flash's phasing instantly. Not sure about MM, but do JLU Amazo or JLU MM have feats for phasing something out of something else? Especially something like an infinity stone that is pretty clearly bonded throughout his vibranium body, like the one on his head. Even questioning whether we should spot Infinity Ultron speed (the argument that he's moving so quickly that he eats a galaxy quickly is a strong one, given the otherwise paucity of feats), I doubt that any being maxing out at JLU MM level is doing anything to get those stones from him, not when he was tanking crazy shots from the freaking Watcher like they were nothing.

[Cody]

Pretty sure he's massively FTL himself. We see that when he grows to the size of galaxy, and isn't rendering himself immobile as a result. And he continues to fight The Watcher despite the size and scale difference. So, it's definitely something he can do in a fight.

Nah, his size just made up for the gap in distance, kinda like how Galactus does it.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Well, he's going to be made of Vibranium, which should cancel any of Flash's phasing instantly. Not sure about MM, but do JLU Amazo or JLU MM have feats for phasing something out of something else? Especially something like an infinity stone that is pretty clearly bonded throughout his vibranium body, like the one on his head. Even questioning whether we should spot Infinity Ultron speed (the argument that he's moving so quickly that he eats a galaxy quickly is a strong one, given the otherwise paucity of feats), I doubt that any being maxing out at JLU MM level is doing anything to get those stones from him, not when he was tanking crazy shots from the freaking Watcher like they were nothing.

MM phased a few things out of robots and the like on a couple of occasions IIRC.

As to being bonded throughout his body, are they? Thanos ripped the one out of Vision just fine in Infinity War after all. And, case in point, Tony nano-shifted the stones right out of the gauntlet into his armor just fine in Endgame.

The ability to tank an explosion does not make one immune to having someone phase through you. It tends to bypass durability after all.

[Jaden Korr]

Nah, his size just made up for the gap in distance, kinda like how Galactus does it.

He was actually moving, and ate a galaxy. As he attempted to kill The Watcher. It wasn't a case of him taking advantage of the expansion in size.

[Fallman]

There's a difference between travel time and reaction time. Both the Watcher and Infinity Ultron can move large distances effectively instantly, but neither of them really showed clear evidence of reacting superhumanly fast.

Admittedly, Ultron should be able to give himself super speed and whatever other powers he wants, but he had a distinct tendency to use the Infinity Stones like blunt instruments, rather than more subtle applications of their power.

At the moment, the closest thing he has to a weakness is CiS; he just doesn't dip that far into his bag of tricks.

How's JLU Amazo on that front? If he's a bit more creative off the bell, he might manage to disable Ultron before he tries something fancy.

[Jaden Korr]

There's a difference between travel time and reaction time. Both the Watcher and Infinity Ultron can move large distances effectively instantly, but neither of them really showed clear evidence of reacting superhumanly fast.

The Watcher was able to block a bunch of his attacks, and we know Ultron's power propagates at such speeds that it can immediately destroy whole solar systems. I would count that towards The Watcher's reactions or reflexes. I mentioned the differential in size and scale because Ultron continued to fight The Watcher even when he grew to galactic. That requires some crazy extra sensory abilities and reactions. The Watcher would be microscopic by comparison at that point.

Admittedly, Ultron should be able to give himself super speed and whatever other powers he wants, but he had a distinct tendency to use the Infinity Stones like blunt instruments, rather than more subtle applications of their power.

He's been more creative with their use than anyone else in the MCU, and especially Thanos. Who just doesn't match up in terms of feats. When he had all the Infinity Stones he wasn't doing all the crazy things that Ultron was doing. It seems in so far as everything else we have seen? He makes use of everything they're capable of. Probably things they're even normally not capable of. As The Watcher was surprised and terrified when Ultron was able to recognize him. Despite having a grand understanding of affairs across the multiverse. The only other person who did that was Dark Strange, and even he couldn't just bust in and take over like Ultron did.

At the moment, the closest thing he has to a weakness is CiS; he just doesn't dip that far into his bag of tricks.

He certainly does a much better job than anyone else in the MCU. I mean look at everyone else. They either can't handle the power and die or only manage a few impressive things. Ultron has become so dangerous that now the rest of the multiverse has to worry about him.

[Cody]

He was actually moving, and ate a galaxy. As he attempted to kill The Watcher. It wasn't a case of him taking advantage of the expansion in size.

That is exactly what it was, as we saw with our own eyes. To suggest it has something to do with speed would be the equivalent of saying every giant has super speed because they ate the CN Tower. For someone that size the distwnce isn't that long at all. Doesn't matter how small the watcher is either because Ultron was just eating that part of the Galaxy before shrinking back down.

You may as well be arguing that Galactus or Pyron from Darkstalkers are mftl because they can grow super big too, or the normal human pilot of Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has mftl reactions because his mech dwarfs galaxies.

[big_adventure]

MM phased a few things out of robots and the like on a couple of occasions IIRC.

Are those robots casual galaxy busters made of Vibranium who throw hands with the Watcher, smacking each other around enough to break reality while they are doing it? Phasing the battery out of a Roomba and taking infinity stones from Ultron aren't the same thing.

As to being bonded throughout his body, are they? Thanos ripped the one out of Vision just fine in Infinity War after all.

That one was bonded throughout Vision's body, explicitly, that's what Shuri was trying to undo, Thanos just overcame the connection through force. Vision's phasing was interrupted, and that Vision never at all mastered the power of the mind stone. UltronVision absolutely did, using it to instakill 5-stone Thanos.

And, case in point, Tony nano-shifted the stones right out of the gauntlet into his armor just fine in Endgame.

That was Tony's gauntlet, however. The one that Thanos wanted to use in Endgame was the gauntlet Stark made for the stones after the time heist. Stark using his own gear to steal things from his own gear tracks pretty well for me, and was one of the most fun bits of the movie.

The ability to tank an explosion does not make one immune to having someone phase through you. It tends to bypass durability after all.

Sure, but it always has limits. Phasing through Vibranium in general is hard (though never seen in MCU, true), due to it cancelling vibrations. Taking an infinity stone away from a resisting being who has mastered their use is not going to be easy. I wouldn't handwave that trick.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Are those robots casual galaxy busters made of Vibranium who throw hands with the Watcher, smacking each other around enough to break reality while they are doing it? Phasing the battery out of a Roomba and taking infinity stones from Ultron aren't the same thing.



That one was bonded throughout Vision's body, explicitly, that's what Shuri was trying to undo, Thanos just overcame the connection through force. Vision's phasing was interrupted, and that Vision never at all mastered the power of the mind stone. UltronVision absolutely did, using it to instakill 5-stone Thanos.




That was Tony's gauntlet, however. The one that Thanos wanted to use in Endgame was the gauntlet Stark made for the stones after the time heist. Stark using his own gear to steal things from his own gear tracks pretty well for me, and was one of the most fun bits of the movie.



Sure, but it always has limits. Phasing through Vibranium in general is hard (though never seen in MCU, true), due to it cancelling vibrations. Taking an infinity stone away from a resisting being who has mastered their use is not going to be easy. I wouldn't handwave that trick.

MCU Vibranium has never been shown to be resistant to phasing (in fact, White Vision and Fake Vision phase through each other in Scarket Witch just fine) and we cannot just handwave Ultron somehow being more resistant to having the stones taken than anyone else because he ‘mastered it’.

https://youtu.be/8ZvC3yhiME0

We clearly see the non-Stone empowered White Vision phasing into Fake Vision just fine (a mind Stone creation), and the same the other way too.

No reason why Ultron would be able to stop phasing.