Thragg vs S class Heroes

[Jaden Korr]

On the sun thing: that's part of why I'm not sure if they are actually fighting on the surface of the sun or within it. They are drawn flying into the sun, then there's a denser level of fire which hurts them significantly more which might be the core. And the core of the sun could explain the discrepancies. (I think. I ain't no astro physicist.)

It's only the core that's hundreds of millions of degrees Fahrenheit. They would have had to have gone deep past the surface, and not just by a wee bit. I think it's just the writer forgetting to fact check himself before he wrote that scene in particular.

[Sharpandpointies]

There's a fairly explicit moment when Thragg fights Space Racer. Where he makes use of his flight speed in combat, and dodges many of Space Racer's lasers at point blank range whilst chasing him down with clear intent to kill. Since viltrumites typically fly at speeds equivalent to most star-ships? This is definitely FTL. Space Racer is a similar position with his bike. As he uses it to travel around the galaxy. The time-frame Thragg would have had to react to those lasers would have been absolutely minuscule. Due to that combination of factors. He was dodging lasers at point blank whilst they were both flying at superluminal speeds. Which means Thragg would have been approaching said lasers at astronomical velocities. If he was not fast enough to react to his own speed he would have died.

https://i.imgur.com/4dcmIHa.jpeg

I honestly have no idea who wins here, and no real care for which one does. But the part with Thragg dodging shots from the other guy needs to be addressed.

Rumbles would not consider this to be reflexes, just based on what is shown on panel. We have a guy dodging shots from another guy, with both of them flying at sufficiently similar speeds that they can interact. Thragg dodging the shots could quite easily be aim-dodging, based on the art.

Now, we can call a mod in to ask for a ruling, but given how Rumbles is pretty picky about this kind of thing (aim dodging versus actually dodging after the whatever has been fired needs to be pretty darned explicit), I have a feeling I know what direction it's going to go.

[Jaden Korr]

I honestly have no idea who wins here, and no real care for which one does. But the part with Thragg dodging shots from the other guy needs to be addressed.

Rumbles would not consider this to be reflexes, just based on what is shown on panel. We have a guy dodging shots from another guy, with both of them flying at sufficiently similar speeds that they can interact. Thragg dodging the shots could quite easily be aim-dodging, based on the art.

Now, we can call a mod in to ask for a ruling, but given how Rumbles is pretty picky about this kind of thing (aim dodging versus actually dodging after the whatever has been fired needs to be pretty darned explicit), I have a feeling I know what direction it's going to go.

He's clearly zig-zagging, and abruptly changing acceleration and trajectory. Whilst in a high-speed battle. If he did not have the processing speed and reactions to change course in minuscule time-frames he would have veered off course by hundreds of thousands of kilometers and then some. Instead of keeping track with Space Racer throughout.

[Cody]

Prove it. Thragg had intent to kill, and Space Racer was terrified of dying. That's my evidence that they're actually flying as fast as they can. Why would Space Racer slow down, and allow himself to die? Why would Thragg let Space Racer go without a fight?

Burden of proof lies with you as you made the claim. And it makes perfect sense, seriously? Thragg doesn't want to Ram into him by flying at full speed(since he can't react to it) while racer is fighting with them and shooting behind him, obviously they won't be going at max speed XD.

There absolutely is indication of this, and you can't argue the lack of collateral damage disproves it because they are in outer space.

What. What does collateral have to do with this? They can't react to their max travel speed, so why would they go max speed when they won't be able to see their respective targets? Thragg would rush on by before he knew it, while Racer would have left the battlefield despite the fact thst he is one of the few fighters there who could put Thragf down with his cosmic gun.

And besides that, by your own admission you don't believe in science or physics in fiction. So, you wouldn't be able to use conservation of energy in the first place without admitting you pick and choose which things to accept or not.

It's because comics pick and choose when to apply it, and in this case that has nothing to do with the scene in question.

[Captain Morgan]

How to evaluate fighting while flying around at high speeds is kind of the million dollar question for Invincible.

[Jaden Korr]

Burden of proof lies with you as you made the claim.

And I already satisfied my burden of proof with that very scan. Which shows us Thragg clearly trying to kill Space Racer, and Space Racer desperately trying to escape.

Give me a good explanation as to why either would hold back here.

And it makes perfect sense, seriously? Thragg doesn't want to Ram into him by flying at full speed(since he can't react to it) while racer is fighting with them and shooting behind him, obviously they won't be going at max speed XD.

Thragg is literally nuke proof like most viltrumites. He has absolutely zero reason to worry about torpedoing through Space Racer. Who has few if any feats of durability. If he couldn't react to his own speed he wouldn't have been able to zig-zag, and change trajectory rapidly like he did there. Space Racer is clearly trying to run away, and was using those shots to try and stop them from chasing him.

What. What does collateral have to do with this? They can't react to their max travel speed, so why would they go max speed when they won't be able to see their respective targets?

They shouldn't be able to see or hear anything to begin with. Yet, they are able to intuitively know where they're going when they should be rendered both deaf and blind by their speed. Hearing is reliant on sound. Sight is reliant on light. You can't see anything period unless you have some sort of extra-sensory abilities, or are somehow able to "see" things whilst moving faster than light. They also require that their neurons are able to transmit signals quickly enough for them to even respond, or recognize what they're sensing.

Thragg would rush on by before he knew it, while Racer would have left the battlefield despite the fact thst he is one of the few fighters there who could put Thragf down with his cosmic gun.

Nope, wrong again. This issue in question wasn't from their battle when their home-world was destroyed. It was when Thragg was regrouping, and rebuilding. By building himself a harem of alien bug women.

It's because comics pick and choose when to apply it, and in this case that has nothing to do with the scene in question.

Didn't you just complain about me doing this in the other thread, and now you're hand-waving it for comic book writers? A bit hypocritical of you.

[Cody]

And I already satisfied my burden of proof with that very scan. Which shows us Thragg clearly trying to kill Space Racer, and Space Racer desperately trying to escape.

Nope. Doesn't matter what you find satisfying, the scan does not prove what you claim it does, as explained to you try again.

Give me a good explanation as to why either would hold back here.

Already did.

Thragg is literally nuke proof like most viltrumites. He has absolutely zero reason to worry about torpedoing through Space Racer. Who has few if any feats of durability. If he couldn't react to his own speed he wouldn't have been able to zig-zag, and change trajectory rapidly like he did there. Space Racer is clearly trying to run away, and was using those shots to try and stop them from chasing him.

Space Racer is avoiding Thraggs attacks while trying to tag him with the cosmic gun which one shots Viltrumites. If Thragg wants to hit him, flying at a speed he can't react to would be stupid because he'd fly right past him.

They shouldn't be able to see or hear anything to begin with. Yet, they are able to intuitively know where they're going when they should be rendered both deaf and blind by their speed. Hearing is reliant on sound. Sight is reliant on light. You can't see anything period unless you have some sort of extra-sensory abilities, or are somehow able to "see" things whilst moving faster than light. They also require that their neurons are able to transmit signals quickly enough for them to even respond, or recognize what they're sensing.

And this, combined with them simply holding their breath to be able to survive in the vacuum of space, should make it clear to you why the writers in question don't really think too hard on hard science like you seem to think they do when it is convenient.

Nope, wrong again. This issue in question wasn't from their battle when their home-world was destroyed. It was when Thragg was regrouping, and rebuilding. By building himself a harem of alien bug women.

The fact that racer got away should make it painfully clear Thragg couldn't keep up.

Didn't you just complain about me doing this in the other thread, and now you're hand-waving it for comic book writers? A bit hypocritical of you.

Do you even understand the words you use? How is pointing out comics pick and choose when to apply science(thus one shouldn't use real world science to wank feats) hypocritical?

[Jaden Korr]

Nope. Doesn't matter what you find satisfying, the scan does not prove what you claim it does, as explained to you try again.

It proves exactly what I claimed it does. Unless you can explain why Space Racer was able to escape at all if he wasn't making use of his bike's top speed.

Already did.

No, you didn't. I rebutted you on it.

Space Racer is avoiding Thraggs attacks while trying to tag him with the cosmic gun which one shots Viltrumites. If Thragg wants to hit him, flying at a speed he can't react to would be stupid because he'd fly right past him.

No, he wouldn't. As he could see Space Racer just fine. One tackle at maximum velocity, and Space Racer wouldn't have been able to dodge it or by your assertion since Space Racer doesn't have superhuman reflexes according to you there's no reason to assume he could dodge it.

And this, combined with them simply holding their breath to be able to survive in the vacuum of space, should make it clear to you why the writers in question don't really think too hard on hard science like you seem to think they do when it is convenient.

This is exactly explained in detail. They have something called smart atoms. One of the things that it allows them to do is survive the vacuum of outer space, and draw on more energy from a limited supply of oxygen. As well as manipulate matter and energy to an extent relative to them.

The fact that racer got away should make it painfully clear Thragg couldn't keep up.

The fact that the Space Racer got away is proof that he was going as fast as he could, and that his bike's maximum speed is a bit higher than Thragg's flight speed.

Do you even understand the words you use? How is pointing out comics pick and choose when to apply science(thus one shouldn't use real world science to wank feats) hypocritical?

You're a DBZ fan. Explain to me why, when the characters are moving at super-speed or flying any extreme velocities, they can still talk just fine. It's hypocritical because you got on my case for doing the same exact thing elsewhere.

[Guy1]

Keep it respectful guys.

[Sharpandpointies]

He's clearly zig-zagging, and abruptly changing acceleration and trajectory. Whilst in a high-speed battle. If he did not have the processing speed and reactions to change course in minuscule time-frames he would have veered off course by hundreds of thousands of kilometers and then some. Instead of keeping track with Space Racer throughout.

My point has nothing to do with the zig-zagging, changing acceleration, trajectory. My point is that we cannot say from what we see on panel that Thragg is dodging the beams after they have been fired, rather than aim-dodging. Rumbles is pretty picky about that kind of particular feat.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I'd recommend just grabbing some popcorn, Sharp.

[Captain Morgan]

My point has nothing to do with the zig-zagging, changing acceleration, trajectory. My point is that we cannot say from what we see on panel that Thragg is dodging the beams after they have been fired, rather than aim-dodging. Rumbles is pretty picky about that kind of particular feat.

I don't think his point is that Thragg is dodging beams after they've been fired. The beam speed doesn't actually matter to his point, I think. His point is that the speeds the two are traveling at are super fast and Thragg is doing tight turns and whatnot at those speeds, and having that level of control implies reflexes on that level.

That gets into wonky issues of relative velocity and fine control vs super speed, so I'm not sure I agree. But I don't think he's arguing for "laser timing."

[Jaden Korr]

My point has nothing to do with the zig-zagging, changing acceleration, trajectory. My point is that we cannot say from what we see on panel that Thragg is dodging the beams after they have been fired, rather than aim-dodging. Rumbles is pretty picky about that kind of particular feat.

Basically, what this guy said:

I don't think his point is that Thragg is dodging beams after they've been fired. The beam speed doesn't actually matter to his point, I think. His point is that the speeds the two are traveling at are super fast and Thragg is doing tight turns and whatnot at those speeds, and having that level of control implies reflexes on that level.

That gets into wonky issues of relative velocity and fine control vs super speed, so I'm not sure I agree. But I don't think he's arguing for "laser timing."

[Jaden Korr]

I'd recommend just grabbing some popcorn, Sharp.

You seem to be angry about something. You were quite passive aggressive in that Liu Kang thread as well. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BitVyper]

I kind of agree with Jaden here. The page basically gives us a distinct line that pretty clearly depicts him making a lot of right angle hairpin turns in a tight space without apparently stopping or slowing. In fact, he seems to be catching up with Racer while making those moves. It demonstrates that what we're seeing is more than "travel speed" since he can course correct his flight speed with enough agility to do that.

It's not the best reflex feat, but it's not nothing.