Is it time for a "retro" James Bond film?

[thwhtGuardian]

They could, but there's a reasonable argument that it would be whitewashing the past, and god knows a lot of us had quite enough of that at school. Obviously they already did this with the Howling Commandos in Captain America, as you can't have your champions of freedom and justice also be the avatar of an ass-backward country with racial streaming policies that would make even Himmler crack a smile.

Eh, I'm not looking at Bond for a history lesson so I don't think that complaint holds much water. It's the same with Bridgerton, who cares that the cast is more diverse than was historically true...it's a drama not a documentary so why limit the cast?

[BeastieRunner]

Bond is not historical fiction, so I agree with the inclusivity arguments.

There's no reason M cannot be black, Felix a woman ("I was expecting a man.""It's short for Felicity.") etc.

[ChrisIII]

M is black in the Bond comics that are set in the present day, as is Moneypenny (Seems to be somewhat based on Naomi Harris's take-like Harris, she's an "action" Moneypenny).

Bond actually teams up with Felix's daughter in one of the 80s-90s Gardner novels, which are meant to follow the Fleming continuity but seem to be a weird amalgamation of them and the movies. Q is also a woman in those novels. (Distinct from the Major Boothryd character who inspired the film version of Q).

One character the next reboot could perhaps work into being more prominent is Bill Tanner. Although he was a fairly prominent supporting cast member in the Craig films, he appeared only sporadically in the other films. In the novel continuity he's considered James Bond's closest MI6 friend, and probably closest next to Felix in general.

[Uncanny Mutie]

I'd imagine one of the things the owners of the franchise are sensitive about are criticisms that the brand is past its expiration date, and wouldn't want to almost embrace that notion by literally setting the storyline in its heyday.

^^^ THIS is the correct answer. One of things that has kept Bond alive in cinema as well as in the public conscious for so many years is the character's and the franchise's willingness to adapt to and evolve with the times. If James Bond would have stayed stuck in the Cold War era with the same look and feel of the early Connery movies and the old Flemming novels, then I guarantee you that we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now because Bond would have faded out of the public consciousness DECADES ago.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, part of what drove the Roger Moore films-although they often had a side plot dealing with the Russians-is that they kind of adapted to trends at the time.


-LIVE AND LET DIE with the Blaxploitation genre
-MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN with Hong Kong action films
-SPY WHO LOVED ME had a very disco-sounding soundtrack
-MOONRAKER and STAR WARS
-OCTOPUSSY seems to have some nods to Indiana Jones
-VIEW TO A KILL with computers

Post-Moore
TLD was a bit of a more traditional cold war plot although it dealt with the Soviet-Afghan war, topical at the time (and also involved in Rambo). LTK took the lead from MIAMI VICE and other "War on Drugs" kind of movies, with a bit of DIE HARD (Michael Kamen for example was brought on board to score).



Goldeneye and TWINE sort of dealt with post-Soviet Union politics a bit more, although TND seemed to parody mass media, also like MTGG Hong Kong films; Die Another Day picked up stuff from the Matrix, Fast and the Furious and other "hip" films of the day etc.



Craig's films do seem to also draw a lot of parrarels to the Bourne films and the Batman Dark Knight movies as well.

[BeastieRunner]

Yeah, part of what drove the Roger Moore films-although they often had a side plot dealing with the Russians-is that they kind of adapted to trends at the time.


-LIVE AND LET DIE with the Blaxploitation genre
-MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN with Hong Kong action films
-SPY WHO LOVED ME had a very disco-sounding soundtrack
-MOONRAKER and STAR WARS
-OCTOPUSSY seems to have some nods to Indiana Jones
-VIEW TO A KILL with computers

Post-Moore
TLD was a bit of a more traditional cold war plot although it dealt with the Soviet-Afghan war, topical at the time (and also involved in Rambo). LTK took the lead from MIAMI VICE and other "War on Drugs" kind of movies, with a bit of DIE HARD (Michael Kamen for example was brought on board to score).



Goldeneye and TWINE sort of dealt with post-Soviet Union politics a bit more, although TND seemed to parody mass media, also like MTGG Hong Kong films; Die Another Day picked up stuff from the Matrix, Fast and the Furious and other "hip" films of the day etc.



Craig's films do seem to also draw a lot of parrarels to the Bourne films and the Batman Dark Knight movies as well.

You got that one backwards.

Spielberg was interested in making a James Bond film but was saddened to be told they will only use British directors (not sure if this rule has changed or when) but it actually came down to experience & money. George Lucas told Spielberg he had an idea for something “better than Bond,” and he pitched the idea for Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indy became their American James Bond. The white dinner jacket and red flower lapel on Indy in Temple of Doom was a homage to Bond’s outfit at the beginning of Goldfinger. And the casting of Connery as Indy's dad was done because they wanted Indy's dad to be Bond.

And that is just the start of the Bond/Indy homages ... Moonraker references Spielberg as a homage/apology. There is whole host of them in both series.

I think it might appear the other way around because both use a lot of popular shots/techniques/tropes of the time.

Steven Spielberg reveals he was rejected as Bond director twice.

James Bond: Why Steven Spielberg Wasn’t Allowed to Direct a 007 Film

Indiana Jones Has A James Bond Easter Egg That's A Dig At 007's Studio

[Uncanny Mutie]

Yeah, part of what drove the Roger Moore films-although they often had a side plot dealing with the Russians-is that they kind of adapted to trends at the time.


-LIVE AND LET DIE with the Blaxploitation genre
-MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN with Hong Kong action films
-SPY WHO LOVED ME had a very disco-sounding soundtrack
-MOONRAKER and STAR WARS
-OCTOPUSSY seems to have some nods to Indiana Jones
-VIEW TO A KILL with computers

...and this is EXACTLY why I hate when people give Moore and his Bond films such a hard time. The 70s and 80s were a time when Pop Culture EXPLODED, and since producers (rightfully) decided that Bond would keep up with the times and current trends, one can't really blame Moore for being Bond during such a trend-heavy time in Pop Culture. If anything, Moore cheerfully accepted the task and did a masterful and extremely charismatic job of guiding Bond through the trends of the 70s and 80s. If Sean Connery were still playing Bond during what was the Moore era, the folks in charge of the Bond franchise would have written his movies to follow the trends and times of the 70s and 80s too (as we got a glimpse of with Diamonds Are Forever, which everybody pretty much acknowledges feels completely different and far lighter than any of the Connery Bond movies from the 60s).

[Jared]

I think it's very much time for a retro late 1950s/ very early 1960s James Bond, provided it's done well. I don't know if it would sell and certainly doubt it would feel authentic, but I would like to see it.

As others have mentioned, I have no idea why the Man from Uncle remake flopped. It was brilliant.

I think the reason Uncle flopped was lack of star power and the UNCLE name not being a big deal. Any Bond movie is pretty much guaranteed a strong opening weekend on the strength of the franchise alone. What happens after that is the question. Craig's era has certainly shown that audiences will embrace a Bond that starts much more grounded than they typically see. But, I don't know if making it a period piece will go over as well. There's also the practical matter of cost: Bond movies are expensive already, and having to wardrobe and set-dress *everything* to look like the 40s or 50s would only make it more so. And the product placement they use to offset the costs will be limited to brands that were around back then.

Eh, I'm not looking at Bond for a history lesson so I don't think that complaint holds much water. It's the same with Bridgerton, who cares that the cast is more diverse than was historically true...it's a drama not a documentary so why limit the cast?

Bridgerton is historical fantasy/soap and they do explain why there are black English nobles in the story. If a Bond movie had a black or female M in 1950, I think it would be quite jarring. Viewers who know anything about history (which sadly, might be too few) would wonder how that came about in this world. They could more plausibly be diversity among his fellow agents, hell it's quite likely there's Indian agents who are contemporary with Bond. With the present day you can cast almost anyone. I think Idris Elba really would have been a good Bond...but that time has passed. He's only a bit younger than Daniel Craig, too late to start as a new Bond. He's older than Roger Moore was when he started, too.

Given the delays that plagued Craig's tenure, I suspect they'll cast someone younger than he was when he started.

Craig's films do seem to also draw a lot of parrarels to the Bourne films and the Batman Dark Knight movies as well.

Well if they keep up the the trends, then we actually need a 50-something Bond headshotting people left and right like John Wick with lots of extended action takes.

[thwhtGuardian]

I think the reason Uncle flopped was lack of star power and the UNCLE name not being a big deal. Any Bond movie is pretty much guaranteed a strong opening weekend on the strength of the franchise alone. What happens after that is the question. Craig's era has certainly shown that audiences will embrace a Bond that starts much more grounded than they typically see. But, I don't know if making it a period piece will go over as well. There's also the practical matter of cost: Bond movies are expensive already, and having to wardrobe and set-dress *everything* to look like the 40s or 50s would only make it more so. And the product placement they use to offset the costs will be limited to brands that were around back then.




Bridgerton is historical fantasy/soap and they do explain why there are black English nobles in the story. If a Bond movie had a black or female M in 1950, I think it would be quite jarring. Viewers who know anything about history (which sadly, might be too few) would wonder how that came about in this world. They could more plausibly be diversity among his fellow agents, hell it's quite likely there's Indian agents who are contemporary with bond. With the present day you can cast almost anyone. I think Idris Elba really would have been a good Bond...but that time has passed. He's only a bit younger than Daniel Craig, too late to start as a new Bond. He's older than Roger Moore was when he started, too.

Given the delays that plagued Craig's tenure, I suspect they'll cast someone younger than he was when he started.



Well if they keep up the the trends, then we actually need a 50-something Bond headshotting people left and right like John Wick with lots of extended action takes.

Eh, they kind of handwave it in Bridgeton but it's not a terribly important point and if it wasn't mentioned at all I doubt people would care unless they're right wing morons.

[Gray Lensman]

I'd love to see them go back to WW2 and make a film about Bond's inspiration - Dusko Popov.

[ChrisIII]

...and this is EXACTLY why I hate when people give Moore and his Bond films such a hard time. The 70s and 80s were a time when Pop Culture EXPLODED, and since producers (rightfully) decided that Bond would keep up with the times and current trends, one can't really blame Moore for being Bond during such a trend-heavy time in Pop Culture. If anything, Moore cheerfully accepted the task and did a masterful and extremely charismatic job of guiding Bond through the trends of the 70s and 80s. If Sean Connery were still playing Bond during what was the Moore era, the folks in charge of the Bond franchise would have written his movies to follow the trends and times of the 70s and 80s too (as we got a glimpse of with Diamonds Are Forever, which everybody pretty much acknowledges feels completely different and far lighter than any of the Connery Bond movies from the 60s).

In the somewhat off-brand Bond with Connery, NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, there's an arcade in the casino filled with games of Centipede and Bond fights the villain in a sort of 3D missile command game as well!

[Jared]

In the somewhat off-brand Bond with Connery, NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, there's an arcade in the casino filled with games of Centipede and Bond fights the villain in a sort of 3D missile command game as well!

And the premise was that Largo and these rich folks dress up in their fine evening wear to go to the secret arcade!

[ChrisIII]

You got that one backwards.

Spielberg was interested in making a James Bond film but was saddened to be told they will only use British directors (not sure if this rule has changed or when) but it actually came down to experience & money. George Lucas told Spielberg he had an idea for something “better than Bond,” and he pitched the idea for Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indy became their American James Bond. The white dinner jacket and red flower lapel on Indy in Temple of Doom was a homage to Bond’s outfit at the beginning of Goldfinger. And the casting of Connery as Indy's dad was done because they wanted Indy's dad to be Bond.

And that is just the start of the Bond/Indy homages ... Moonraker references Spielberg as a homage/apology. There is whole host of them in both series.

I think it might appear the other way around because both use a lot of popular shots/techniques/tropes of the time.

Steven Spielberg reveals he was rejected as Bond director twice.

James Bond: Why Steven Spielberg Wasn’t Allowed to Direct a 007 Film

Indiana Jones Has A James Bond Easter Egg That's A Dig At 007's Studio

I think it went a bit both ways with OP. Although Indy's India adventure was still a bit away I think there's definetly some RAIDERS DNA in several parts of Octopussy. The safari scene in particular. Granted, Bond had tangled with a snake and ancient temple in MOONRAKER, Crocodiles in numerous films and bookwise, an Octopus (Live and Let Die novel) years before RAIDERS....



None of the movie really comes from the OP short story either-that was just Bond tracking down the guy who killed one of his mentors-which not only became OP's main backstory but also Waltz's Blofeld.

[Powerboy]

^^^ THIS is the correct answer. One of things that has kept Bond alive in cinema as well as in the public conscious for so many years is the character's and the franchise's willingness to adapt to and evolve with the times. If James Bond would have stayed stuck in the Cold War era with the same look and feel of the early Connery movies and the old Flemming novels, then I guarantee you that we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now because Bond would have faded out of the public consciousness DECADES ago.

This is true, as much as I would love a retro Bond movie. I remember back in the 1990s when Deep Space 9 did that takeoff on Bond and a lot of responses were, "It felt more like a James Bond movie than the James Bond movies have felt like for a long time" because, like most things derived from Bond, it focused a lot on the early era. Yes, it was kind of "Moonraker"" (1979) but the background was more like the 1960s.

But that reaction tends to come from older fans who are not the biggest part of the movie-going audience and who want something they consider of their time.

Comic book characters get reinvented with the times. Sherlock Holmes has been reinvented as what he might be today and even the stuff still set in the Victorian era (RDJ) is really just a bunch of people with early 21st century social attitudes walking around in the late 19th century.

One of the failures of the Shadow, even when he's in the modern world, is that he's presented as still that 1930s character.

So, though I personally far prefer Bond in the Cold War era, and while it might be great for a comics series or streaming, I don't think it can work as the main setting of the movies.

[Powerboy]

I think the reason Uncle flopped was lack of star power and the UNCLE name not being a big deal. Any Bond movie is pretty much guaranteed a strong opening weekend on the strength of the franchise alone. What happens after that is the question. Craig's era has certainly shown that audiences will embrace a Bond that starts much more grounded than they typically see. But, I don't know if making it a period piece will go over as well. There's also the practical matter of cost: Bond movies are expensive already, and having to wardrobe and set-dress *everything* to look like the 40s or 50s would only make it more so. And the product placement they use to offset the costs will be limited to brands that were around back then.




Bridgerton is historical fantasy/soap and they do explain why there are black English nobles in the story. If a Bond movie had a black or female M in 1950, I think it would be quite jarring. Viewers who know anything about history (which sadly, might be too few) would wonder how that came about in this world. They could more plausibly be diversity among his fellow agents, hell it's quite likely there's Indian agents who are contemporary with Bond. With the present day you can cast almost anyone. I think Idris Elba really would have been a good Bond...but that time has passed. He's only a bit younger than Daniel Craig, too late to start as a new Bond. He's older than Roger Moore was when he started, too.

Given the delays that plagued Craig's tenure, I suspect they'll cast someone younger than he was when he started.



Well if they keep up the the trends, then we actually need a 50-something Bond headshotting people left and right like John Wick with lots of extended action takes.

I am not sure what the reaction to a black M in 1950 would be. Some would just say it's a Bond movie and hardly a reflection of reality to begin with. Some would complain about it's being "woke" but they would do that if it was set in 2021. Some might be bothered by it for much the same reason Sisko in Deep Space 9 disliked the Vic Fontaine 1962 Las Vegas program because it "whitewashed" (an ironic word in this case) history. In reality, a black person would never be a guest in a casino in 1962 but, in the holo-program, there's no racism at all. It might be too far from reality on an important issue and too distracting.