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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I’ll be honest and say some of my pessimism comes from how accepting and non-character a bunch of Hollywood types seem about TLJ screwing over Rey, implying they gave into the same issue Johnson had. And not just “Hollywood types” but LFL members themselves - Pablo Hidalgo and Jason Frye are two dudes I respect in all things Star Wars… until they start talking about the ST.

    Abrams, thanks to TFA, makes me think he could have done the right thing… But I also think he shouldn’t be blamed for the “course correction” he tried to make in TROS as much as others - the story was written into a corner by TLJ, and Rey having a claim on the multi-film story that TLJ had raised above her was neccessary.

    But that’s still for Rey by herself.

    I honestly don’t think anyone who actually enjoys the family story can enjoy the way the ST doomed them to an ignominious death and a disgraceful waste of space like Kylo. I’m not kidding when I say it would be better if Kylo didn’t exist - ROTJ’s a happy ending, dammit, and that’s better than some tragic bullshit for no damn reason.
    Well, Hollywood tends to not always be trustworthy. But I don't think screwing Rey over would be fixed by making her a Skywalker. It would just reinforce the notion of needing to be related to someone in order to be a good character, yet wouldn't fix any of the actual problems with her, or with Finn

    And there's nothing wrong with a tragic ending. I don't buy the idea that the sequels are ruined because the Skywalkers didn't get the cliche happy ending

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    Well, Hollywood tends to not always be trustworthy. But I don't think screwing Rey over would be fixed by making her a Skywalker. It would just reinforce the notion of needing to be related to someone in order to be a good character, yet wouldn't fix any of the actual problems with her, or with Finn

    And there's nothing wrong with a tragic ending. I don't buy the idea that the sequels are ruined because the Skywalkers didn't get the cliche happy ending
    My argument in favor of Rey being related to someone important from previous films in TROS is that LFL was clearly planning the film to be a “grand finale” for the storylines from the Lucas films - and once that happens, Rey needs a connection to those storylines. I’d go further and say that she should have just been made a Skywalker at that point - though here it’s because I’m thinking about salvaging the story after TLJ, as I *do* agree that she could have conceivably been fine if the ST were truly treated as a transition storyline away from the Skywalkers.

    And I’d have to admit that I think I chose the wrong word when speaking of tragedy - because tragedy can be epic, and being epic is the key to what makes Star Wars escapism (which it should always be).

    What Star Wars can’t be is banal - and Kylo, even as early as TFA, is writing the family story into a banal story. A family of complex, well developed, generally likable or at least at one point likable character with mythic precedents and impact… go down because their last member is a pathetic shitstain fo a human being?

    Nah, screw that. That ain’t Star Wars.
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  3. #108
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    And there's nothing wrong with a tragic ending. I don't buy the idea that the sequels are ruined because the Skywalkers didn't get the cliche happy ending
    The sequels weren't ruined because the Skywalkers didn't get a happy ending, but that sure as hell contributed to it.

    The family had already gotten its happy ending. Vader was redeemed, Leia and Luke both had bright futures ahead of them rebuilding their respective organizations (the Republic and Jedi). They had persevered against all odds, against all manner of loss and pain, and had taken down a powerful and corrupt government at great personal cost.

    People who helped shape the franchise say its about hope, and happy endings. And the Skywalkers had that....until the sequels. Hard to blame fans when the films went out of their way to take a dump on every single victory and good thing Luke and Leia had. Leia was in love with Han? Divorce. Rebuilt the Republic? Blown up by a Imperial Remnant with delusions of grandeur. Started a family? The kid becomes emo Vader. Rebuilt the Jedi? Emo Vader kills everyone.

    It would have been one thing to leave the Skywalkers in the past. But ruining everything about the happy ending they had already earned? Yeah, it's distasteful.
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  4. #109
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    The sequels were ruined because none of the characters got to do anything interesting. Whether or not they're related to people doesn't affect what they actually do and who they actually are on screen, which is what I'd guess most people actually care about. And there were plenty of internet chatter mocking the 'everyone has to be related' attitude viewers suspected the filmmakers had. And more when 'she's a Palpatine' was confirmed. I'm not sure where you think that's changed. And he Skywalkers didn't need a young hero in the family to be interesting in the sequels. The Skywalkers we already new needed to actually do something, instead of sitting around. Having a younger hero related to them doesn't at all change that. Rey being Luke's daughter doesn't make her more interesting either, whether or not Kylo's a good person or not. And I don't see how Finn would've gotten a better deal if Rey was Luke's daughter or whatever

  5. #110
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Think Leia originally was going to do a lot more in Episode 9, it's been said that each film was intended to kind of showcase one member of the original crew. TFA was Han, TLJ was Luke, ROS or the original version of Episode 9 was going to be Leia (although she kind of still was important to the plot regardless).
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  6. #111
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The sequels weren't ruined because the Skywalkers didn't get a happy ending, but that sure as hell contributed to it.

    The family had already gotten its happy ending. Vader was redeemed, Leia and Luke both had bright futures ahead of them rebuilding their respective organizations (the Republic and Jedi). They had persevered against all odds, against all manner of loss and pain, and had taken down a powerful and corrupt government at great personal cost.

    People who helped shape the franchise say its about hope, and happy endings. And the Skywalkers had that....until the sequels. Hard to blame fans when the films went out of their way to take a dump on every single victory and good thing Luke and Leia had. Leia was in love with Han? Divorce. Rebuilt the Republic? Blown up by a Imperial Remnant with delusions of grandeur. Started a family? The kid becomes emo Vader. Rebuilt the Jedi? Emo Vader kills everyone.

    It would have been one thing to leave the Skywalkers in the past. But ruining everything about the happy ending they had already earned? Yeah, it's distasteful.
    The LEGENDS books kind of took a similar approach, but seemed to be somewhat more balanced I guess. Han and Leia's kid still went bad and they lost not only one but another son; although their daughter turned out alright and pretty much was implied to become a Queen of a reformed version of the Empire. Chewbacca also died but once again Han and co. made it OK. Luke was mostly successful rebuilding the Order despite a few setbacks (Including his wife being killed); things don't really get super bad again until the Legacy comic series which sees the Sith regain control of the galaxy and the last Skywalker (although not really the last of the bloodline, there's I think another line through Han and Leia's daughter and Wedge's nephew. No, I'm not kidding on that last bit) being a bit of a burned out outlaw (He gets better though)
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  7. #112
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The LEGENDS books kind of took a similar approach, but seemed to be somewhat more balanced I guess.
    I stopped reading the novels....gods, long time ago. The Skywalker kids were still kids and had just begun their Jedi training I think?

    But balance. That's all I'd want from the new canon. I don't want these guys to have perfect lives after ROTJ, I want them to have their fair share of adversity and failure. But I want them to have their fair share of wins too.
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