Kindred's identity made no sense in the end

[your_name_here]

Kindred was the best villain Marvel had in years, because it actively held Peter accountable for things, specifically OMD. I honestly don’t know HOW they would go about addressing it again, if ever, because Kindred being Harry made perfect sense and was actually deeply personal for something so huge.

[Spiderfan001]

Kindred was the best villain Marvel had in years, because it actively held Peter accountable for things, specifically OMD. I honestly don’t know HOW they would go about addressing it again, if ever, because Kindred being Harry made perfect sense and was actually deeply personal for something so huge.

My guess is the Mephisto event when his fate will be revealed.Spider-man should take him down, find everything out and then marry MJ

[Alan2099]

Mysterio hypnotised Norman and MJ into believing that Norman slept with Gwen to create Gabriel and Sarah but they are really just genetic clone things created by an artificial intellignce Harry osborn using Gwen and Normans DNA,. The Harry AI itself was created by the original harry osborn to carry out certain plans to continue ruining peter's life should the original Harry die. thats about the best i can understand it lol. and for some reason the Harry osborn revived during brand new day is a clone but how he came to be is not explained at all.

I've been saying since the first made the story that it needed to be revealed as some convulated plot of Mysterio.

I feel like I should win a prize.

[Chris0013]

I've been saying since the first made the story that it needed to be revealed as some convulated plot of Mysterio.

I feel like I should win a prize.

Here you go....

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

Wait, which Harry exactly was controlling the twins? The Harry in hell being tortured by Mephisto, or AI Harry?

Also, if the twins are basically just meat puppets, how do they seemingly have emotions and even concern for each other during the final battle?

[ShadowSJG]

There was clearly editorial messing
Kindred being Harry was perfect as it made everything personal
So, what about Harry's soul? Was he in hell all this time and did nothing

[Alan2099]

Here you go....

I'll cherish it forever.

[marhawkman]

Wait, which Harry exactly was controlling the twins? The Harry in hell being tortured by Mephisto, or AI Harry?

Also, if the twins are basically just meat puppets, how do they seemingly have emotions and even concern for each other during the final battle?

My understanding is the twins ARE actual people. But they got controlled to act out Harry's revenge plot. For them as Kindred... that happened after they got tortured to the point of insanity by Mephisto or something.

There was clearly editorial messing
Kindred being Harry was perfect as it made everything personal
So, what about Harry's soul? Was he in hell all this time and did nothing

Apparently Mephisto was indirectly controlling Kindred?

[Vortex85]

My understanding is the twins ARE actual people. But they got controlled to act out Harry's revenge plot. For them as Kindred... that happened after they got tortured to the point of insanity by Mephisto or something.
Apparently Mephisto was indirectly controlling Kindred?

They were also speaking as Harry with inside knowledge only Harry could have known though. So I believe it's implied they are possessed and overtaken with Harry's consciousness and he can kind of come and go in and out of them using them as vessels somehow.

What is strange is we even have panels of Mysterio in hell with Kindred with Harry's face.

What, did Kindred take the Chameleon serum to hell with him? If Kindred could just appear as Harry without the serum why would he need it on earth?



LOL, this makes no sense!

[Celgress]

It's editorial meddling in the worst way...

This is my hunch as well. I suspect Kindred was supposed to be either OG Harry (not the AI) or OG Gwen Stacy (the candidates who made the most logical sense) but Editorial was "no. no. no". I also think OMD was supposed to be addressed perhaps resolved.

[Spidey_62]

Was Kindred not shown also wearing a red jacket in several appearances? I think around #24 or 25...?

Also when Kindred was captured in Ravencroft for a while, weren't they also colored with the tan jacket and purple jacket at several points... while sitting in a box literally unable to go anywhere? There was no room for both of them to be hiding in the little box where Kindred was pretty powerless lol.

Am I remembering these right? The more you pick this stuff apart the less sense it makes given all the stuff that actually was in the books.

[marhawkman]

They were also speaking as Harry with inside knowledge only Harry could have known though. So I believe it's implied they are possessed and overtaken with Harry's consciousness and he can kind of come and go in and out of them using them as vessels somehow.

What is strange is we even have panels of Mysterio in hell with Kindred with Harry's face.

What, did Kindred take the Chameleon serum to hell with him? If Kindred could just appear as Harry without the serum why would he need it on earth?



LOL, this makes no sense!

Well if it's Mephisto.... maybe that IS Harry? It'd make adequate sense if Harry did all the parts in hell and the physical appearances on Earth were the twins? The twins were at least some of the time being directly controlled by Harry's mind. So... it'd make sense if Harry did a little more?

[Lukmendes]

55 issues! Thankfully this convoluted, meandering run wasn’t 55 years long. Although it certainly felt that way at times. :P

Curiously, Bleeding Cool claims they interviewed some people who would know, and they say there wasn’t any overt editorial interference, Spencer just had to cut his run short. I’m not sure if I believe it, but if that’s true and Spencer actually planned that train wreck of a conclusion, that’d be even worse.

Kindred at times showed up with different colored jackets, even before the reveal, and on the last issue, we see both Kindreds, each other with a jacket Kindred used previously.

There's also the scene with Carlie being captured in ASM#57 vol 5, while Kindred was imprisoned, and we see Kindred's centipedes, it's very possible that was the other Kindred.

So it's possible that was planned all along, or at least since ASM#57

I've been saying since the first made the story that it needed to be revealed as some convulated plot of Mysterio.

I feel like I should win a prize.

Either this is some bizarre coincidence, or you're secretly Spencer trying to fool us all :P.

They were also speaking as Harry with inside knowledge only Harry could have known though. So I believe it's implied they are possessed and overtaken with Harry's consciousness and he can kind of come and go in and out of them using them as vessels somehow.

What is strange is we even have panels of Mysterio in hell with Kindred with Harry's face.

What, did Kindred take the Chameleon serum to hell with him? If Kindred could just appear as Harry without the serum why would he need it on earth?

https://i.imgur.com/Nti2naS.png

LOL, this makes no sense!

Harry says that they're vessels from the version of him before he died, so an AI can control two demonic beings somehow.

I mean even if you say it's actually Mephisto and Harry didn't know about it 'cause he forgot about his time in hell, then it doesn't explain why ASM#72 has Mephisto talking as the AI, then right after it's Harry, which establishes both as different beings, then ASM#74 has Norman talking about Harry AI like it's Mephisto lol.

I think maybe Mephisto somehow modified AI Harry to keep up with current events, and somehow made it control the Kindreds, but eh, reeks of plot holes...

And why in the fuck hell would someone with seemingly unlimited powers like Kindred need Chameleon's serum to shape shift? Fuck, I detest how lazy Spencer is with magic.

Was Kindred not shown also wearing a red jacket in several appearances? I think around #24 or 25...?

Was purple in those.

Also when Kindred was captured in Ravencroft for a while, weren't they also colored with the tan jacket and purple jacket at several points... while sitting in a box literally unable to go anywhere? There was no room for both of them to be hiding in the little box where Kindred was pretty powerless lol.

That happened yes.

Anyways, I compiled Kindred's colors over ASM:

https://imgur.com/a/dvNr5aQ

Some notes:

At the end of ASM#49, we see purple Kindred watching over a grave, but ASM#50 uses brown Kindred, then ASM#60 shows purple Kindred again, assuming it's not a coloring mistake, it could be that both Kindreds are looking at different graves, and maybe purple Kindred unburied Harry while brown Kindred unburied the rest for that creepy dinner scene.

ASM#50.LR has Peter remembering that dream he had with Kindred from ASM#24, and it shows purple Kindred, then when Norman is talking about Kindred being Harry, it shows brown Kindred, then when it shows a flashback from ASM#31, it shows purple Kindred, so this issue shows that the different colored Kindreds were intentional, or at the very least, that the artists were paying attention to the colors.

After Last Remains, they got sloppy with the colors, brown Kindred is the one who gets captured after LR, then all of a sudden, in ASM#63 it's purple Kindred, and in#64 and #65, purple Kindred is the one being beaten up, when it obviously should be brown Kindred, as he's the one being beaten up in #66 (Not the same beating at least, since it happens a day later), also ASM#58 shows that it was brown Kindred who refused Kingpin's request, but then King's Ransom shows that it was purple Kindred, then in ASM Chameleon Conspiracy, it shows brown Kindred as the one who talks with Chameleon, then ASM#72 and #73's flashbacks of that scene show purple Kindred instead, then Sinister War#1 shows brown Kindred as the one who talked with Mysterio in ASM#25, when it was actually purple Kindred.

Sinister War has a dumb moment in #4 where brown Kindred is colored as purple

ASM#74 has a really confusing way of showing the events, ASM#73 has a page that shows purple Kindred having defeated Spidey, Sarah on the next panel, then MJ, that kinda makes it look like the scenes happened in this order, but then ASM#74 makes it look like Sarah was talking with MJ while Peter was getting beaten up (You can see the centipedes on the panel where MJ reaches Spidey), and this is just annoyingly confusing, should've just made Gabriel be the one fighting Spidey while MJ runs from Sarah, Spidey and MJ meet, then both Gabriel and Sarah show up.

Also:





Both ASM#7 and #10 shows Kindred with a white coat, that means there's a secret third Kindred who got away with all of this and is running around .

[Dzika_Sowa]

We shouldn't be guessing and trying to make sense of it... It's Marvel job to produce a compelling, well thought story :/
They didn't, and they left us with this mess...

Anyway, what is this Mephisto event, You guys are talking about? Where can I read more about it?

[Spiderfan001]

We shouldn't be guessing and trying to make sense of it... It's Marvel job to produce a compelling, well thought story :/
They didn't, and they left us with this mess...

Anyway, what is this Mephisto event, You guys are talking about? Where can I read more about it?

Hopefully marvel does explain all this themselves, and Spencer speaks up about what they changed

For the Mephisto event he's been popping up everywhere, specially the Avengers run and we have this https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm...of_the_marvel/