Kindred being the Stacy Twins is a really underwhelming reveal as being two people from a hated storyline everyone wanted to forget was beyond dumb. Further, he was clearly set up to be Harry:
Having Sarah/Kindred and Gabriel/Kindred working directly for Mephisto as his champions despite the previous issue suggesting they're possessed by Harry, either via his soul in Hell or the Harry AI. Rereading all the times Kindred interacted with Peter, Norman, and especially MJ only makes any logical sense if Harry is the one puppeteering the Kindreds. There's also the scene in which Kindred reminisces about Harry's death in Spectacular Spider-Man #200, which is told from his POV as if he's Harry
All the hints made it clear it was Harry. Like with what Norman said to him during Absolute Carnage, the way he spoke about Peter and Norman indicated a very personal and history that only Harry had as well as the dialogue about paying for your sins. Issue 73 made it clear it was Harry using Sarah/Gabriel as vessels or something not that it was actually them. This whole thing was a confusing mess which ruined Kindred and made everything about it pointless.
The end result was so lame, after a build up of 3 years, its two people from a story everyone wanted to forget and have like zero personal connection
Results 1 to 15 of 53
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10-02-2021, 10:46 PM #1Amazing Member
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Kindred's identity made no sense in the end
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10-03-2021, 01:01 AM #2Extraordinary Member
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It's their bodies btw, they were being influenced/controlled by AI Harry who was being influenced/controlled by Mephisto.They were alive but Harry was controlling them as we see in 73.
It's still dumb af thoughLast edited by Spiderfan001; 10-03-2021 at 01:08 AM.
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10-03-2021, 02:15 AM #3Mighty Member
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It's editorial meddling in the worst way, And i wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it was changed early on.
But the fact Spencer had to shift course after 55 years to do something else is what i find infuriating.
I will also lay some blame at Spencer's feet as he wasn't really telling a story but trying to retcon his entire run. Still, i do feel bad for him
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10-03-2021, 03:38 AM #4Fantastic Member
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It's so very confusing. I'm cool with Sins Past being retconned but this whole story just made me feel really sorry for the twins, they were basically tortured in hell for ages then died and... went back to hell? Did they even have souls or personalities to lose?
Also I'm so lost on how an AI can possess anything. Guess we just gotta chalk that one up to Mephisto?
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10-03-2021, 04:29 AM #5Extraordinary Member
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Mephisto was manipulating AI Harry, so yeah.It's mentioned it's Mephisto.
Originally Posted by PanicPixieDreamGirl
I have to re-read this whole thing again.....
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10-03-2021, 04:57 AM #6Extraordinary Member
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Was this whole storyline just an overly convoluted way to undo Sins Past? A way to throw a bone to Gwen fans and say "no..she really didn't do the hibbity dibbity with Norman."?
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10-03-2021, 06:05 AM #7Astonishing Member
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55 issues! Thankfully this convoluted, meandering run wasn’t 55 years long. Although it certainly felt that way at times. Originally Posted by FFJamie94
Curiously, Bleeding Cool claims they interviewed some people who would know, and they say there wasn’t any overt editorial interference, Spencer just had to cut his run short. I’m not sure if I believe it, but if that’s true and Spencer actually planned that train wreck of a conclusion, that’d be even worse.
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10-03-2021, 06:27 AM #8Fantastic Member
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Everything had to change once Spencer signed with Substack, he had to rewrite the story to finish at issue 74 instead of issue 100 and for what we got i'm satisfied, he got rid of sins past and managed to at least get a decent ending out of it. its not perfect but its not nearly as bad as it could have been.
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10-03-2021, 06:29 AM #9Ultimate Member
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How did he get rid of Sins past? I havent read the series yet but I wouldnt mind spoilers. If the twins are around how to they make it like it didnt happen?
This Post Contains No Artificial Intelligence. It Contains No Human Intelligence Either.
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10-03-2021, 06:38 AM #10Mighty Member
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Oops, typo on my part, still, it's a funny typo. Originally Posted by HypnoHustler
55 issues! Thankfully this convoluted, meandering run wasn’t 55 years long. Although it certainly felt that way at times.
Curiously, Bleeding Cool claims they interviewed some people who would know, and they say there wasn’t any overt editorial interference, Spencer just had to cut his run short. I’m not sure if I believe it, but if that’s true and Spencer actually planned that train wreck of a conclusion, that’d be even worse.
Anyway, i like Spencer's run And i'll be lying if i said i didn't enjoy the last few story arcs, they aren't good And it's been a glorious mess, but we are in a better place than where we started.
I just wish Spencer was telling a story and not a retcon
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10-03-2021, 06:39 AM #11Fantastic Member
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Mysterio hypnotised Norman and MJ into believing that Norman slept with Gwen to create Gabriel and Sarah but they are really just genetic clone things created by an artificial intellignce Harry osborn using Gwen and Normans DNA,. The Harry AI itself was created by the original harry osborn to carry out certain plans to continue ruining peter's life should the original Harry die. thats about the best i can understand it lol. and for some reason the Harry osborn revived during brand new day is a clone but how he came to be is not explained at all. Originally Posted by babyblob
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10-03-2021, 06:40 AM #12Extraordinary Member
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spoilers: Originally Posted by babyblob
end of spoilersGabriel and Sarah were clones created splicing Norman's and Gwen's DNA. Evil Harry used Mysterio to brainwash Norman to believe he and Gwen knocked boots and even had MJ brainwashed to believe Gwen confessed to her.
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10-03-2021, 06:46 AM #13Ultimate Member
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Originally Posted by DrewHLMW
Originally Posted by Chris0013
Thanks guys. I guess that is one way to explain it all away but it sounds pretty complicated lol.This Post Contains No Artificial Intelligence. It Contains No Human Intelligence Either.
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10-03-2021, 07:05 AM #14Amazing Member
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It's ironic. In the attempt to undo Sins Past Marvel has just delivered a convoluted mess that in no way is better than SP (or even One More Day) from a storytelling perspective. Like One More Day and One Moment in Time this Kindred-nonsense isn't so much a story as it is just a tool to "fix" something. It's sad to see how a flagship-title like Amazing Spider-Man has been treated for decades now. For Marvel it seems more important to get to issue 1000 as soon as possible than putting some quality work into the title
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10-03-2021, 07:17 AM #15Extraordinary Member
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Kindred is better because it fixes some stuff while fails to fix others.OMD and Sins Past just create problems, OMD's lasting decades. Originally Posted by A Maze Thing
Agreed, hopefully they get into their sense by 900 and for the 60th aniversary of Peter he gets comics worthy of one of the best and most popular heroes out there.
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