Hellions #16: It all falls down

[Hulkout42]

Emma doesn’t need the council’s approval to resurrect Madelyne. She and the 5 can do it. All she has to do is convince the 5. We already know Madelyne is coming back anyway so this is apparently how it happens,

That only happens if she sees a benefit to having Madelyne back, which i don't think she will because aside from maybe securing Havok's loyalty (which again i see a lack of benefit there) what does she gain? And if this is before Inferno (Is it btw?) than the council still says no and she does it anyway she is screwed, the only way this works is if she takes over completely or there is no more council.

[Rnap22]

Seriously not one bad issue in this entire series.

[Rev9]

That only happens if she sees a benefit to having Madelyne back, which i don't think she will because aside from maybe securing Havok's loyalty (which again i see a lack of benefit there) what does she gain? And if this is before Inferno (Is it btw?) than the council still says no and she does it anyway she is screwed, the only way this works is if she takes over completely or there is no more council.

I'm sure this has been Emma's long term plan, get all the power for herself through moving various pieces in place.One vote at a time.We'll see how she votes on Destiny first.She probably wants controversial votes to create discord which she can use to her advantage forging blocs as well as having member's positions weaken if they oppose majority vote like Magneto attempted in the trial.

I actually worry if the council is done away with entirely.Emma is too manipulative to trust with sole leadership. I think the writers seem invested with this idea.Emma pushing UN delegate minds to vote a certain way is the primer for Emma's style of governance.

[Leirus]

I'm sure this has been Emma's long term plan, get all the power for herself through moving various pieces in place.One vote at a time.We'll see how she votes on Destiny first.She probably wants controversial votes to create discord which she can use to her advantage forging blocs as well as having member's positions weaken if they oppose majority vote like Magneto attempted in the trial.

I actually worry if the council is done away with entirely.Emma is too manipulative to trust with sole leadership. I think the writers seem invested with this idea.Emma pushing UN delegate minds to vote a certain way is the primer for Emma's style of governance.

I do not really think so. Even back in HoX, when told about the council, Emma asked something like "But this is a temporal thing, until something more formal is agreed upon?". I do not see Emma trying to set a tyranny on Krakoa. That would be suicidal.

[Omega Alpha]

I do not really think so. Even back in HoX, when told about the council, Emma asked something like "But this is a temporal thing, until something more formal is agreed upon?". I do not see Emma trying to set a tyranny on Krakoa. That would be suicidal.

How the hell would Emma impose tyranny in an island full of Omega mutants and telepaths more powerful than her?

[Rev9]

I do not really think so. Even back in HoX, when told about the council, Emma asked something like "But this is a temporal thing, until something more formal is agreed upon?". I do not see Emma trying to set a tyranny on Krakoa. That would be suicidal.

I don't think Emma's words can be taken at face value, she doesn't trust Magnus and Xavier either.To me she was throwing that out there to put them on the spot and test them.I don't think with Emma it would be obvious tyranny, it would be a facade of concord but she loves manipulation so it would not be far removed from Xavier and Magneto to do anything expedient in name of wearing the 'heavy crown'. For me the acid test will be if Xavier is evicted from the council, will she keep Exodus another telepath on or off the council? Sure Exodus is better served being an autonomous entity in the future, but if writers maneuver Emma to get rid of the only other powerful telepath outside of Xavier and herself off the board.I would be suspicious. All that I see from her is powerplay and if she's left to manipulate others without any checks Krakoa is in trouble.

[Sutekh]

I do not really think so. Even back in HoX, when told about the council, Emma asked something like "But this is a temporal thing, until something more formal is agreed upon?". I do not see Emma trying to set a tyranny on Krakoa. That would be suicidal.

And yet, I see Emma as, in her own way, as ruthless and one-track-minded about the preservation of mutantkind as Beast has become over in X-Factor, only, in her case, the impetus for her change has been the murders of the original Hellions, and later the genocide in Genosha, two events that traumatized her at the time, and have left her with very much a tendency to think that 'whatever works' is the right plan, even if it is sketchy AF. (Beast, IMO, has no such excuse for his decent into moral relativism. With Emma, it's a clear progression and logical, organic and true to her history. Even when it could lead to a wrong decision, it's *understandable* how she got to that point. With Beast, it's just, eh, let's be a mad scientist, because the lulz?)

I could totally see Emma deciding that Xavier is too morally squishy and concerned about his image and his ideals to get his hands dirty and do what needs to be done to secure mutantkind's future, and that Magneto's just too damn compromised with all the stuff swirling around him. She could easily be positioned to see that the only hope for mutantkind's future survival is for her to take the reins, preferably manipulating events behind the scenes, so as not to have to compete with a half-dozen mutants clearly more powerful than her (but few, if any, as capable of the behind-the-scenes power-plays that she is, making her, in her own opinion, and possibly even in fact, better qualified for this puppetmaster position).

I do agree that it would be suicide for her to openly attempt to seize control. Exodus, Shadow King, Jean, Xavier, Quentin, Legion, etc. could all smack her down telepathically, and it's quite possible various 'lesser' telepaths like the Cuckoos (working together), Betsy, etc. could also give her a run for her money. She'd need to build a coalition, perhaps by arranging for a new QC full of people she thinks she can manipulate, but who, as experience is our guide, will turn out to be anything but... (Imagine a QC where the likes of Sinister, Shaw and Mystique are *not* counter-balanced by people like Nightcrawler, Storm and Jean! I feel like Emma might end up with a QC full of sharks, with people like Selene, Beast and the Shadow King stepping up to fill vacated seats.)

[Rev9]

And yet, I see Emma as, in her own way, as ruthless and one-track-minded about the preservation of mutantkind as Beast has become over in X-Factor, only, in her case, the impetus for her change has been the murders of the original Hellions, and later the genocide in Genosha, two events that traumatized her at the time, and have left her with very much a tendency to think that 'whatever works' is the right plan, even if it is sketchy AF. (Beast, IMO, has no such excuse for his decent into moral relativism. With Emma, it's a clear progression and logical, organic and true to her history. Even when it could lead to a wrong decision, it's *understandable* how she got to that point. With Beast, it's just, eh, let's be a mad scientist, because the lulz?)

I could totally see Emma deciding that Xavier is too morally squishy and concerned about his image and his ideals to get his hands dirty and do what needs to be done to secure mutantkind's future, and that Magneto's just too damn compromised with all the stuff swirling around him. She could easily be positioned to see that the only hope for mutantkind's future survival is for her to take the reins, preferably manipulating events behind the scenes, so as not to have to compete with a half-dozen mutants clearly more powerful than her (but few, if any, as capable of the behind-the-scenes power-plays that she is, making her, in her own opinion, and possibly even in fact, better qualified for this puppetmaster position).

I do agree that it would be suicide for her to openly attempt to seize control. Exodus, Shadow King, Jean, Xavier, Quentin, Legion, etc. could all smack her down telepathically, and it's quite possible various 'lesser' telepaths like the Cuckoos (working together), Betsy, etc. could also give her a run for her money. She'd need to build a coalition, perhaps by arranging for a new QC full of people she thinks she can manipulate, but who, as experience is our guide, will turn out to be anything but... (Imagine a QC where the likes of Sinister, Shaw and Mystique are *not* counter-balanced by people like Nightcrawler, Storm and Jean! I feel like Emma might end up with a QC full of sharks, with people like Selene, Beast and the Shadow King stepping up to fill vacated seats.)

Great points,I doubt Emma will swallow her pride to let Selene on the QC.She hates and probably fears Selene in equal measure.So I don't see her inviting Selene on there. Farouk right now is the new 'Apocalypse' and for the time being unless writers write themselves into a corner.I don't see his agenda being discovered just yet as a powerful telepath he may stay in Emma's and Exodus' blind spot for a while.Beast is a definite yes, they are birds of a feather.Maybe she can play nice and placate Shaw by putting Shinobi on the council instead of his father, that would be an interesting bargain and I'd be curious what Shaw would want as his 'diamond' handshake

[jwatson]

Nope ,if the council voted on Wanda ,at least for the sake of appearances, they have to vote on this too.Although because Jean who has skin in the game ,quit her spot on the QC maybe they won't.Then again who knows the QC structure by Inferno's end. I think Emma appreciating the optics of decorum to return Sinister to his quarters in this issue,leans to her putting it to a vote.

I have no doubt all the men will vote yes because as evident by them wanting to know what was up with what happened to shaw, including nightcrawler (which that vote made him lose some points for me as i felt that was betrayal of two of his best friends. lol) they are here for the messy. I'm not even sure Storm would vote no because she and maddie had a relationship but she may just because of what jean said when she was resurrected on krakoa. Emma will say yes and kitty and shaw will follow her vote. Mystique like to be messy. This would be an almost unanimous yes imho.

[Rev9]

I have no doubt all the men will vote yes because as evident by them wanting to know what was up with what happened to shaw, including nightcrawler (which that vote made him lose some points for me as i felt that was betrayal of two of his best friends. lol) they are here for the messy. I'm not even sure Storm would vote no because she and maddie had a relationship but she may just because of what jean said when she was resurrected on krakoa. Emma will say yes and kitty and shaw will follow her vote. Mystique like to be messy. This would be an almost unanimous yes imho.

I don't know what relationship Storm had with Maddie, so I'm not sure which way she'd vote but I agree it would be almost a unanimous yes.I think Sinister would object though ,for he knows Maddie would come for him. Although I also get the feeling there will be a catch... something akin to a SW caveat being pulled that cerebro could not pick her up and so her backup for resurrection is very old.Ergo even when she is resurrected she has the hots for Scott not Alex So even if Emma tries to do this to appease Alex it may backfire even on her.

[jwatson]

I don't know what relationship Storm had with Maddie, so I'm not sure which way she'd vote but I agree it would be almost a unanimous yes.I think Sinister would object though ,for he knows Maddie would come for him. Although I also get the feeling there will be a catch... something akin to a SW caveat being pulled that cerebro could not pick her up and so her backup for resurrection is very old.Ergo even when she is resurrected she has the hots for Scott not Alex So even if Emma tries to do this to appease Alex it may backfire even on her.

It has already been stated by hope that Gabbie and Maddie were being picked up and as seen by Gabbie coming back cerebro recognized her as her own person up until her current death. Then there are also the cuckoos who are genetically identical with the same x-gene but somehow cerebro is picking them up as individuals with no slip up.

[Devaishwarya]

As a member of the QC Emma can act with a certain amount of autonomy...as have every other member. If she approaches the RFive who enact their own autonomy, to resurrect Maddie, it most likely will be done without the other QC members not knowing. I strongly suspect it will be one of those decisions that backfire tremendously even if it was done in good faith. But Wells could surprise me.

[Rev9]

It has already been stated by hope that Gabbie and Maddie were being picked up and as seen by Gabbie coming back cerebro recognized her as her own person up until her current death. Then there are also the cuckoos who are genetically identical with the same x-gene but somehow cerebro is picking them up as individuals with no slip up.

Well you picked up on something I missed so maybe there's no catch to Maddie's resurrection. However this being Maddie it wouldn't surprise me when she returns she tells Alex, she not really into him and is into Scott. Typical femme fatale shenanigans..

[jwatson]

Well you picked up on something I missed so maybe there's no catch to Maddie's resurrection. However this being Maddie it wouldn't surprise me when she returns she tells Alex, she not really into him and is into Scott. Typical femme fatale shenanigans..

from new mutants 21.

resurrectiondupes.jpg

[Rev9]

As a member of the QC Emma can act with a certain amount of autonomy...as have every other member. If she approaches the RFive who enact their own autonomy, to resurrect Maddie, it most likely will be done without the other QC members not knowing. I strongly suspect it will be one of those decisions that backfire tremendously even if it was done in good faith. But Wells could surprise me.

I think this is possible , but I think resurrections of 'problem' individuals would require some sort of common endorsement.It must be an unspoken rule.I mean we may find out it's possible but my hunch is for example Mystique didn't walk in as Mystique telling the 5 to resurrect Destiny , more likely she came in the guise of Xavier, or came with Emma and Sinister in tow demanding the resurrection of Destiny.I don't think the five just accept anything one council member says.Magneto got some help from Hope, but God knows what that was about...If what Hope says goes maybe you are right (as long as she's onside all fall in line) I just don't think on a case by case basis it works that easily.