AMAZING #75 Review and Spoilers: To Benfinity and Beyond!!!

[Dzika_Sowa]

It was mostly okay. Thankfully Ben is friendly to Peter when they both jump into Spider-Man costumes. Of course none of the Kindred stuff is explained at all.

[boots]

Thanks a lot, the criticism helped more than I would have thought.
I did, right after 75 to catch up on my Ben and Janine.I got roped up in something and couldn't read the third issue but doing that today after I get off from work.It's been amazing so far.

are you reading the lost years tpb? does it include the collected JMD back up stories of ben, that were kind of a prequel to lost years?

[The Black Death]

It's in the Editor afterword in issue 75.It states it's a 19 parter.

I know, I mean he probably won't be Spider-man by the end.As in that's what I think Marvel will do, not saying he's can't be Spider-man.Could be cool.

As long as the 60th aniversary thing is Peter only w/ no additional spiders thrown in it's fine(nothing against them but this is their chance to get ASM back on track and it's Peter's aniversary)

I see, but thanks for the information, although the 19 issues is relative in this period of time several things can happen. And what I meant is that Ben can still carry the mantle of Spider-Man even if Beyond ends, at least that way when Peter receives a beating he won't be alone to receive one, and a piece of advice, don't get your hopes up with the 60th anniversary, it can be very disappointing for you.

[ZeroBG82]

Unfortunately Ben has a history of being taken advantage of by those who use him or deceive him. The same thing happened when he put too much trust in Seward Trainer during the 90s clone saga. I think it's a personality issue distinct to Ben, as he felt abandoned when he hit the road so he looks for anyone who validates him and believes in him, even if that belief is manipulative and hiding ulterior motives.

I think this is spot on, and totally how I read Ben in this issue. He has a very serious case of not looking the gift horse in the mouth. He needs this, he wants this. And right now he's perfectly willing to take it at face value just on those grounds.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts as more of Beyond's dubious and sinister nature emerges. They have all sorts of leverage over him. His ID, whatever is going on with Kafka in the back-up story, Janine's freedom. But will they need it? Will he be willing to make excuses for their bad behavior to hold onto this new life they have seemingly given him? What will be too far? They have practically telegraphed that Ben is either going to be coerced into stuff he won't be ok with, or will eventually go along with said stuff freely (if reluctantly) because he just doesn't want to see the truth. It's got a little bit of KnightQuest to it, but instead of Azrael's trauma and the stress of being Batman breaking his mind it's Ben's desire to build this life for himself and Beyond's leverage slowly eroding the foundations of Ben's morality.

I could easily see this story ending in a similar place to PAD's BR:SS, in terms of Ben being a villain. Just slower burning and more "earned." I could easily see this story ending with Peter confronting Ben, Spidey v Spidey, trying to finally get through to Ben that this isn't OK. I could easily see this story ending with Ben and Peter teaming up to bring Beyond down. And I could easily see this story ending with Ben giving his life yet again, though whether it be another heroic sacrifice or a tragic end due to his misplaced faith remains to be seen. There's a lot of good drama here that should be fun to see moving forward.

[Spiderfan001]

For the most part I hate the whole "someone else is <insert heroes name>" gimmick. Very rarely is it more than something to shake things up an they always go back to the original.

Times I think it worked...Rhodey because Tony was in the bottle. John Walker becomes Cap because it allowed Steve to re-evaluate what and who he thought Cap should be. These were more character driven stories that allowed the characters to grow. But things like Ben Reilly or Otto becoming Spider-Man or Bucky or Sam becoming Cap....cheap sales gimmick.

I know Ben has his fans...and if they were to use him as Scarlet Spider...more power to them for making him his own thing...But Peter and Ben may have some memories in common...but that does not make them the same person. They have had different lives and life experiences that make them unique individuals.

Agreed, it's been way too long for the "we're the same" argument.Both grew into their own things.

are you reading the lost years tpb? does it include the collected JMD back up stories of ben, that were kind of a prequel to lost years?

I'm reading issue wise.I've read all 4(0 to 3), is there something I missed in those 4?Issue 0 had the Ben Jackal stuff w/ Gwen as well if that's what you're talking about.
Also is this between issues because the romance b/w Ben and Janine feels fast forwarded.Feels like I skipped something, not anything big like a moment of change but the static in between.It happens so fast.
I enjoyed it a lot though, and it's given me a new appreciation for Ben and Kaine.

I see, but thanks for the information, although the 19 issues is relative in this period of time several things can happen. And what I meant is that Ben can still carry the mantle of Spider-Man even if Beyond ends, at least that way when Peter receives a beating he won't be alone to receive one, and a piece of advice, don't get your hopes up with the 60th anniversary, it can be very disappointing for you.

No problem.Several things like COVID delays? Because they have multiple writers and no one is writing more than 2 per month, not to mention ASM is usually top priority,

The set-up is there.As long as Beyond doesn't set up a massive aftermath we have to deal w/ like Peter MJ break up or Ben being perma Spidey(replacing Peter, not alongside him is what I mean) we should be fine.The writer(and artist to a smaller degree but still important) is what will define my hopes for the most part.Just focus on Peter and get him back on track.No web of life stuff, just good ol' Peter Parker.

I think this is spot on, and totally how I read Ben in this issue. He has a very serious case of not looking the gift horse in the mouth. He needs this, he wants this. And right now he's perfectly willing to take it at face value just on those grounds.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts as more of Beyond's dubious and sinister nature emerges. They have all sorts of leverage over him. His ID, whatever is going on with Kafka in the back-up story, Janine's freedom. But will they need it? Will he be willing to make excuses for their bad behavior to hold onto this new life they have seemingly given him? What will be too far? They have practically telegraphed that Ben is either going to be coerced into stuff he won't be ok with, or will eventually go along with said stuff freely (if reluctantly) because he just doesn't want to see the truth. It's got a little bit of KnightQuest to it, but instead of Azrael's trauma and the stress of being Batman breaking his mind it's Ben's desire to build this life for himself and Beyond's leverage slowly eroding the foundations of Ben's morality.

I could easily see this story ending in a similar place to PAD's BR:SS, in terms of Ben being a villain. Just slower burning and more "earned." I could easily see this story ending with Peter confronting Ben, Spidey v Spidey, trying to finally get through to Ben that this isn't OK. I could easily see this story ending with Ben and Peter teaming up to bring Beyond down. And I could easily see this story ending with Ben giving his life yet again, though whether it be another heroic sacrifice or a tragic end due to his misplaced faith remains to be seen. There's a lot of good drama here that should be fun to see moving forward.

Agreed.I just feel the change from his old attitude of doubtful of happiness to this was abrupt.Not his Jackal phase or Factory setting indicates that he'd change like this.I guess it can work though.

The end is what has me thinking, a lot of ways to go about it.Mostly I want to know how far Ben is going and will he raise any resistance against Beyond?

[boots]

I'm reading issue wise.I've read all 4(0 to 3), is there something I missed in those 4?Issue 0 had the Ben Jackal stuff w/ Gwen as well if that's what you're talking about.

ah yeah, the 0 issue is the same story. it was originally a short series of back up stories in the early days of the saga, but it must have been collected as a special 0 issue for the mini. i was asking, because that was the first story that really got me empathising with the character.

Also is this between issues because the romance b/w Ben and Janine feels fast forwarded.Feels like I skipped something, not anything big like a moment of change but the static in between.It happens so fast.

i think that's just because the mini was three issues, so likely a space thing.

glad to hear you're enjoying it, i dug the kaine/ben conflict in this and redemption. i see redemption as the last word on that... i'm less keen on revisiting that in a modern setting.

[scarletspidey]

are you reading the lost years tpb? does it include the collected JMD back up stories of ben, that were kind of a prequel to lost years?

I have a copy iof this signed by JRjr somewhere, I'll try and hunt it down and check

I'd love it if Marvel did a TPB combining Lost Years and Revelations right now for people to get some good backstory on ben as Spider-Man

[scarletspidey]

Even if we roll w/ the it's their life thing(I say this because Spider-man hasn't been his life for a long long time now)

I don't think it has been a "long long time" since Spider-Man was his life though - he died then years later he was resurrected and killed over and over, the years inbetween would have been nothing for him - he then was the Jackal for what a few months in universe? Went to Vegas for a little bit and then got reset to "factory settings" maximum time he was away from being Spider-man was probably a year and a half

[boots]

I have a copy iof this signed by JRjr somewhere, I'll try and hunt it down and check

I'd love it if Marvel did a TPB combining Lost Years and Revelations right now for people to get some good backstory on ben as Spider-Man

i've pretty much lost my collection, so something like that would be handy

[HypnoHustler]

I don't think it has been a "long long time" since Spider-Man was his life though - he died then years later he was resurrected and killed over and over, the years inbetween would have been nothing for him - he then was the Jackal for what a few months in universe? Went to Vegas for a little bit and then got reset to "factory settings" maximum time he was away from being Spider-man was probably a year and a half

Do you mean Ben perceives it as a year and a half because he was dead for so much of that time, or do you mean it’s only been a year and a half Marvel time since ‘Revelations’? That story is now a quarter of a century old, so I have to believe that at least warrants 3-4 years of Marvel time (even though they’re slowing down the timeline even more nowadays).

[scarletspidey]

Do you mean Ben perceives it as a year and a half because he was dead for so much of that time, or do you mean it’s only been a year and a half Marvel time since ‘Revelations’? That story is now a quarter of a century old, so I have to believe that at least warrants 3-4 years of Marvel time (even though they’re slowing down the timeline even more nowadays).

that Ben would perceive it as a max of 1.5 years... tbh with Marvel time it's probably even less for him than that - for Pete (and the rest of the universe) it must have been at least 4 years since revelations (not that the passage of time makes sense in 616)

[Spiderfan001]

ah yeah, the 0 issue is the same story. it was originally a short series of back up stories in the early days of the saga, but it must have been collected as a special 0 issue for the mini. i was asking, because that was the first story that really got me empathising with the character.



i think that's just because the mini was three issues, so likely a space thing.

glad to hear you're enjoying it, i dug the kaine/ben conflict in this and redemption. i see redemption as the last word on that... i'm less keen on revisiting that in a modern setting.

Good to know.Yeah that story really hit home.The main story was great as well, I love the dynamics and monologues(even though they were a bit too long IMO)

I don't think it has been a "long long time" since Spider-Man was his life though - he died then years later he was resurrected and killed over and over, the years inbetween would have been nothing for him - he then was the Jackal for what a few months in universe? Went to Vegas for a little bit and then got reset to "factory settings" maximum time he was away from being Spider-man was probably a year and a half

I think it's more than that.And even then if it's anything more than a year I feel the I'm as much Spider-man as you are in untrue because Peter's been going at this longer, much longer if you take the time Ben was dead.Coming back one random day that not only is he Spider-man, but he's working w/ a company that owns Spider-man is a bit much considering he hasn't scoped the company out or tried to make it so so that Peter's life won't be in jeoprady w/ te trademark thing(which has a very real chance ti be a thing as we will probably see w/ Miles ).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

ben being the silver spoon entitled guy was a good laugh though, jack.

Well he is. The only reason Ben thinks he's Spider-Man or a superhero is not because of anything he did but because it was handed down to him or rather injected into him upon his conception.

If we go canon, after the First Clone Saga...Peter went on to fight Juggernaut, the Secret Wars, Venom and Firelord while Ben Reilly was doing f--k all, and then he re-entered to upend Peter's life. So the guy who was actually putting in the work and risking his life is made to feel obsolete and insecure because some new blonde clone claims to be the real guy all of a sudden.

Doppelganger stories, i.e. where people meet their double, became popular during the Industrial Revolution as a metaphor for how the workplace makes everyone feel replacable, that the work they do and the life they lived are meaningless to the point that it could be done by a fake guy imitating them. So that fits Peter and Ben quite well.

A blonde white American man gleefully in the embrace of his wealthy corporate sponsor is the last thing I'd identify with as an analogy for a more diverse, equitable, accessible and inclusive world. All I'm seeing is another white guy feeling privileged and entitled to take whatever he wants, even when the territory is already occupied by another human being. Even going so far as to appropriate the original inhabitant's name and superhero culture for himself.

Great point.

[HypnoHustler]

To those complaining about Ben being a model of white privilege… then don’t read it. Why does every comic now need a diversity mission statement? Are blonde characters not allowed anymore? Someone tell Johnny Storm. If you want diversity in comics, you have Miles, Silk and plenty of others. This is why people complain about comics being too woke… everything is so politically correct nowadays. Representation is great and I like that people can relate to characters that weren’t available before… but stop complaining about established characters that also have a fan base, especially based on something as petty as a hair color or a storyline where the character gets corporate sponsorship. Sorry, rant over.

EDIT: “appropriate… superhero culture.” Now I’ve heard everything.

[jda95]

I'm starting to think some of these people who think Ben implicity said "give up the webs Peter, I'm the one and only Spider-Man" read a completely different comic to the one I read.