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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Cheetah
    Poison Ivy
    Granny Goodness
    Circe
    Blackfire
    Paula Von Gunther
    Silver Banshee
    Silver Swan
    Giganta
    Livewire

  2. #32
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    Well, we are living in newer times. Lets make Batman gay. Maybe he always has been.

    But to not go out of topic, return to the top ten female villians...

    But based on what?: Popularity? Fame? Appearances? media apperances? Power level? Character development? Personal taste?

    Based on different parameters, you can have different lists.
    I assumed it was personal taste, but if we're going with an objective Top 10 list, I think it'd look something like...

    1. Catwoman

    2. Harley Quinn

    3. Poison Ivy

    4. Cheetah

    5. Talia al Ghul

    6. Amanda Waller

    7. Enchantress

    8. Granny Goodness

    9. Killer Frost

    10. Giganta

  3. #33
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    As an aside, can I just say how much I hate the "Talia al Ghul" thing. Her father declared himself "Ra's al Ghul"--the Head of the Demon--all one name, it wasn't a family name. Talia is just Talia*--as she was for a long time in the comics. The only way I could explain "al Ghul" for my own sanity would be if, when she entered the United States, the border official gave her the last name "al Ghul" to fill that space on the form.

    *Just looked it up. In Arabic, Talia means "dew from heaven." So, I guess, Talia al Ghul would mean "dew from heaven of the demon."
    Last edited by Jim Kelly; 10-10-2021 at 08:24 AM.
    "Tout le sang qui coule rouge; All blood runs red."--Eugene Bullard
    "O what a rogue and peasant slave am I!"--William Shakespeare

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I assumed it was personal taste, but if we're going with an objective Top 10 list, I think it'd look something like...

    1. Catwoman

    2. Harley Quinn

    3. Poison Ivy

    4. Cheetah

    5. Talia al Ghul

    6. Amanda Waller

    7. Enchantress

    8. Granny Goodness

    9. Killer Frost

    10. Giganta
    I think Harley Quinn is even objectively too high, if it is truly about the top villains.

  5. #35
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    A few other possibilities:






  6. #36
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Roulette was in JL:U, so she's at least semi known.

    But yeah, the "villain decay" thing happens with a LOT of characters, not just pretty ladies. I mean, look at Dru-Zod, in at least one story he was actually Kal-el's ALLY! It's kind of inevitable if characters are given complexity and not just one note "bad-guys".

  7. #37
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    Throughout his run in FLASH COMICS, the main adversary of "King" Standish (a.k.a. the King) was the Witch. She was relentless in her efforts against him.

    Another aside, this time about Harley Quinn: I don't read her comics, so I don't know what she's been up to. I know her mainly from the movies and the cartoon shows. In those she's ultra-violent. She kills people with abandon. She might have her reasons, but everyone has their reasons--that doesn't make killing legal. In her mind, she might see herself as the hero of her story--but for me, she's insane, living in an absurd world that is skewed to her perspective. In reality, she's not a hero, she's a villain. Why is she considered a hero in the comics? Did she go to a far eastern temple and have some spiritual conversion that made her a peace-loving individual who never kills?
    "Tout le sang qui coule rouge; All blood runs red."--Eugene Bullard
    "O what a rogue and peasant slave am I!"--William Shakespeare

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    As an aside, can I just say how much I hate the "Talia al Ghul" thing. Her father declared himself "Ra's al Ghul"--the Head of the Demon--all one name, it wasn't a family name. Talia is just Talia*--as she was for a long time in the comics. The only way I could explain "al Ghul" for my own sanity would be if, when she entered the United States, the border official gave her the last name "al Ghul" to fill that space on the form.

    *Just looked it up. In Arabic, Talia means "dew from heaven." So, I guess, Talia al Ghul would mean "dew from heaven of the demon."

    Or "The Demon's Dew" the new flavor of Mountain Dew lol. If al-Ghul means demon the maybe her name is technically Talia Demon which sounds cool I think.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    Or "The Demon's Dew" the new flavor of Mountain Dew lol. If al-Ghul means demon the maybe her name is technically Talia Demon which sounds cool I think.
    The particle "al" in Arabic can either mean "the" or "of the"--in this case it means "of the"--the head (Ra's) of the (al) demon (Ghul). Although demon is an inexact translation--it's more like an undead monster. In the comics, his English title is the Demonhead (and the Sensei was the Demonfang).

    From what I've read about Arabic naming traditions--if they want to give Talia a longer name and they want to show her connection to Ra's al Ghul, then the proper way to do it would be "Talia bint Ra's al Ghul"--which would roughly mean "Dew from Heaven, Daughter of the Demonhead." Since Talia is the mother of Damian, and the meaning of Damian is "the Tamer," she could have the name "Talia Umm Damian bint Ra's al Ghul"--which would mean "Dew from Heaven, mother of the Tamer, daughter of the Demonhead."

    Hopefully I got all that right. Anyone who knows Arabic please correct any errors I might have made.
    "Tout le sang qui coule rouge; All blood runs red."--Eugene Bullard
    "O what a rogue and peasant slave am I!"--William Shakespeare

  10. #40
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    1) Cheetah - The most popular villainess of the most popular heroine. Which should be reminded to DC editorial regularly since she’s also one of the most misused villains (meaning, stop putting her in Bat media). Honestly, I always thought she just looked the coolest in a fight with Wonder Woman. And I love (most) of her origins (Golden, Bronze, Post-Crisis, Rebirth)

    2) Poison Ivy - On the fence about including her since DC can’t seem to make up their mind if she’s a hero or villain, to the the point that they split her into two different people… (talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too) but I’ll include her since most outside media still depicts her as a villain. I really like her plant powers and I like how she has a Nobel cause but goes about it the worst way. She’s the living embodiment of “the ends don’t justify the means”.

    3) Circe - Circe is probably the most powerful villainess in DC, and was really popular during Post-Crisis. Even though her appearance have waned in the past decade, she still has her time to shine.

    4) Giganta - She’s used a lot, and makes a lot of transitions to other comics. She’s also just a fun, simple villain.

    5) Granny Goodness - Sadistic killer grandma with superpowers? Uh, yes please.

    6) Silver Banshee - Always just loved the look and powers honestly. DC needs to use her more.

    7) Silver Swan - Just a great design and cool powers.

    8) Dr. Cyber - Fun design and powers, lot of untapped potential.

    9) Medusa - She’s Medusa… everyone loves Medusa.

    10) Live Wire - She’s just an jerk honestly…and I love it.

    -

    Edit: Shoutout to Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Killer Frost and Maxima. I don't really view the first 3 as villains anymore (at most, anti-heroes) and Maxima has just not been remotely relevant for too long... (sorry Maxie). I think she showed up in one Wonder Woman issue a few years ago and that was about it for over a decade... And even in Post-Crisis she was basically reformed.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 10-13-2021 at 07:50 PM.
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  11. #41
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    people don't have Catwoman or Harley Quinn on their lists?

    How are you all ranking these feme Fatales?
    Catwoman is only a villain for 50% of a movie these days. Comics-wise she's basically a hero who just steals for giggles, same with TV shows.

    Harley Quinn? Comic wise, she's on the Bat-team now. Movie wise, she's a goofy anti-hero with more moral similarities to Deadpool than the big-bad of whatever superhero film you wanna pick from. TV show wise, maybe she's still a villain? Depends on the show.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 10-13-2021 at 07:47 PM.
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  12. #42
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The Spirit had a lot of femmes fatale. They were too well developed as characters to be called villains. Latter day creators are always borrowing from Eisner for Batman, so that might be one reason his rogues gallery has added so many women to the ranks.
    Technically Catwoman and Poison Ivy are the only major ones, especially as Harley and Talia started out as supports to male villains.

    BTAS had many fascinating original female villains like Calendar Girl, Baby Doll and Red Claw who should have been introduced in the comics though. The '66 show also gave the impression that Batman had more female villains than he actually does coz they created original villains of the week (many of which were evil aristocratic ladies) for older Classic Hollywood actresses to appear on the show.
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 10-13-2021 at 10:56 PM.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    1. Jane Doe
    2. Lady Shiva
    3. Cheetah
    4. Circe
    5. Baby Doll
    6. Granny Goodness
    7. Medusa
    8. Morrison's Talia
    9. Baroness Paula von Gunther
    10. Perpetua
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-14-2021 at 02:13 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Technically Catwoman and Poison Ivy are the only major ones, especially as Harley and Talia started out as supports to male villains.
    That's not really true for Talia--unless you mean she was a support for Dr. Darrk in "The Den of the Death-Dealers"--it's hard to say who is more important in that story, Talia or Darrk. She serves to introduce Ra's al Ghul as a character in her next story "Daughter of the Demon"--where, yes, the Demonhead is a more important player than the Daughter--but Talia's big scene is key to the story. After that, she's the main adversary in several stories with no daddy in the picture.

    She's the Bat character that is the most like a Spirit character--where she occupies a morally grey area. She's clearly a criminal and doing very bad things. But she's given so much depth, that it's not really about good vs. evil--it's about exploring the human condition. The question is, just because a character is well-written and given psychological complexities, does that mean they aren't a villain?

    And whether the character turns "good" later is hardly the point. I think of Baroness Paula von Gunther as one of the top Wonder Woman villains--I'd put her above the Cheetah--but Paula was reformed and became a useful Amazon. That's actually one reason why she was such a great villain. It proved that Diana walked the walk and didn't just talk the talk. The Amazing Amazon was dedicated to rehabilitation and reform--and Paula served as the best example. So she was one of the greatest Wonder villains of all time, because her story had weight.

    By the same logic, Catwoman is one of the best Bat villains of all time. Just because writers choose to waste her now as a goody-goody and a love interest doesn't take away from her standing as one of the top three classic Bat villains--the other two being Joker and Penguin.
    "Tout le sang qui coule rouge; All blood runs red."--Eugene Bullard
    "O what a rogue and peasant slave am I!"--William Shakespeare

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    That's not really true for Talia--unless you mean she was a support for Dr. Darrk in "The Den of the Death-Dealers"--it's hard to say who is more important in that story, Talia or Darrk. She serves to introduce Ra's al Ghul as a character in her next story "Daughter of the Demon"--where, yes, the Demonhead is a more important player than the Daughter--but Talia's big scene is key to the story. After that, she's the main adversary in several stories with no daddy in the picture.

    She's the Bat character that is the most like a Spirit character--where she occupies a morally grey area. She's clearly a criminal and doing very bad things. But she's given so much depth, that it's not really about good vs. evil--it's about exploring the human condition. The question is, just because a character is well-written and given psychological complexities, does that mean they aren't a villain?

    And whether the character turns "good" later is hardly the point. I think of Baroness Paula von Gunther as one of the top Wonder Woman villains--I'd put her above the Cheetah--but Paula was reformed and became a useful Amazon. That's actually one reason why she was such a great villain. It proved that Diana walked the walk and didn't just talk the talk. The Amazing Amazon was dedicated to rehabilitation and reform--and Paula served as the best example. So she was one of the greatest Wonder villains of all time, because her story had weight.

    By the same logic, Catwoman is one of the best Bat villains of all time. Just because writers choose to waste her now as a goody-goody and a love interest doesn't take away from her standing as one of the top three classic Bat villains--the other two being Joker and Penguin.
    this is part of why I like Livewire so much, yes, in at least two incarnations she eventually becomes Superman's sidekick. But, the reasoning behind why/how she does so is what makes the story interesting.

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