Has wolverine really become to powerful?

[TheCape]

Well, Marvel just says he's some martial arts master, in practice, he generally just slashes at random and wins battles by attrition 'cause of his broken healing lol.





He summoned a fire dragon or something in in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, so yeah, he's not that different from a Naruto ninja in that regard lol.



I want to disagree but... Yeah, he busted.

Guess you have to become super powerful if you manage to survive those NES games .

Anyways, since Wolverine fighting the Hulk in his debut was mentioned to say he was always super tough, I decided to check out that battle, and mostly, Wolverine just dodges, this is the only time Hulk hits him:





(Incredible Hulk#181)

He dodges just enough to avoid most of the punch's impact, and his stamina is how he survived just that "scratch", so while Wolverine was always tough since his debut, he definitely couldn't actually tank Hulk's attacks as much as he does now, since just a scratch knocked him down immediately lol.

In the 80s and 90s you sometimes saw him using martial arts or at least showing some level of attitude in hand to hand combat, it was partially tied to the fact that he was trying to be less animalistic, but in the 2000s yeah, he mostly just slashes, there is a mini by Aaron called Manifest Destiny when is even commented that his fight style regressed and became wilder, impliying that it was some sort self-imposed punishment because of what he discovered about his life since Morrison and Way's run. These days he is mostly slash and stab, with sometimes a writers remembering that he is supposed to be at least an expirienced brawler.

And yeah originally he wasn't that tought and i would never put it in Hulk's level, he is closer to Black Panther and Captain America, almost an equal even, but he has periods, especially under Claremont, when he was clearly stronger than that, so Marvel inconsistency with him got annoying.

Hulk and Wolverine also got their first remacth in Incredible Hulk 340, when Logan performed better and actually hurt him, but it was let clear that if the battle had continued Hulk would have beat him, he basically got saved by the bell, it was also Joe Fixit Hulk instead of the regular green one, so that probably helped him.

[TheCape]

Here's the thing: Spider-Man was 15 years old. It makes sense he would naturally get stronger as he matures. Iron Man is a technology based character. His armor's tech will progress accordingly. Panther comes from a nation that has the world's only vibranium. Jean Grey was given in universe reasons for power upgrades as was Hulk.

Wolverine as a fictional character has a backstory where he has lived 100+ years. The only thing that happened that increased his healing ability in universe was having his adamantium ripped out by Magneto. Then it was restored. And yet the insane healing remains, even though it is still very much canon that the adamantium is toxic and reduces his healing. It quite literally never made sense.

It was implied in Cornell's run (wich admittedly is not very good) that Logan healling factor boost his abilities (his physical stats) whenever he is an extreme situation, basically his fury mode helps him out, it doesn't answer everything, but there are some explanations for his weird bouts of power, yes i don't like it either, but is what it is.

[Ptrvc]

Well, Marvel just says he's some martial arts master, in practice, he generally just slashes at random and wins battles by attrition 'cause of his broken healing lol.





He summoned a fire dragon or something in in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, so yeah, he's not that different from a Naruto ninja in that regard lol.



I want to disagree but... Yeah, he busted.

Guess you have to become super powerful if you manage to survive those NES games .

Anyways, since Wolverine fighting the Hulk in his debut was mentioned to say he was always super tough, I decided to check out that battle, and mostly, Wolverine just dodges, this is the only time Hulk hits him:





(Incredible Hulk#181)

He dodges just enough to avoid most of the punch's impact, and his stamina is how he survived just that "scratch", so while Wolverine was always tough since his debut, he definitely couldn't actually tank Hulk's attacks as much as he does now, since just a scratch knocked him down immediately lol.

Yeah, but he was also supposed to be a teenage mutant wolverine wearing gloves with claws in them.

The character changed a lot.

As for the martial arts thing mostly that just translates to punching and kicking but harder in comics. It's basically just superpowers.

[Username taken]

Well, Marvel just says he's some martial arts master, in practice, he generally just slashes at random and wins battles by attrition 'cause of his broken healing lol.





He summoned a fire dragon or something in in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, so yeah, he's not that different from a Naruto ninja in that regard lol.



I want to disagree but... Yeah, he busted.

Guess you have to become super powerful if you manage to survive those NES games .

Anyways, since Wolverine fighting the Hulk in his debut was mentioned to say he was always super tough, I decided to check out that battle, and mostly, Wolverine just dodges, this is the only time Hulk hits him:





(Incredible Hulk#181)

He dodges just enough to avoid most of the punch's impact, and his stamina is how he survived just that "scratch", so while Wolverine was always tough since his debut, he definitely couldn't actually tank Hulk's attacks as much as he does now, since just a scratch knocked him down immediately lol.

Yeah, I actually mentioned that earlier that in his first fight with the Hulk, Wolvie got floored with one punch. If you read the entire fight, he couldn't even cut Hulk's body with his claws.

It was with the power creep that he could hang out with class 100s. He definitely wasn't at that level back in the day.

[Lukmendes]

In the 80s and 90s you sometimes saw him using martial arts or at least showing some level of attitude in hand to hand combat, it was partially tied to the fact that he was trying to be less animalistic, but in the 2000s yeah, he mostly just slashes, there is a mini by Aaron called Manifest Destiny when is even commented that his fight style regressed and became wilder, impliying that it was some sort self-imposed punishment because of what he discovered about his life since Morrison and Way's run. These days he is mostly slash and stab, with sometimes a writers remembering that he is supposed to be at least an expirienced brawler.

Yeah, once his healing factor got stronger, writers got lazy, so now he looks like an incompetent moron who just wins by attrition.

And yeah originally he wasn't that tought and i would never put it in Hulk's level, he is closer to Black Panther and Captain America, almost an equal even, but he has periods, especially under Claremont, when he was clearly stronger than that, so Marvel inconsistency with him got annoying.

If you compare just strength level, then yeah, he's around Cap and T'Challa's level, but the claws and his healing factor technically put him above 'em.

Hulk and Wolverine also got their first remacth in Incredible Hulk 340, when Logan performed better and actually hurt him, but it was let clear that if the battle had continued Hulk would have beat him, he basically got saved by the bell, it was also Joe Fixit Hulk instead of the regular green one, so that probably helped him.

Wouldn't say it helped that much, Joe is weaker, but he's also smarter lol.

Yeah, but he was also supposed to be a teenage mutant wolverine wearing gloves with claws in them.

The character changed a lot.

Sure, not denying that, just pointing out that "Wolverine was always too strong because he debutted fighting the Hulk" isn't really accurate, because he definitely wasn't blocking Hulk's punches with his face like it tends to happen afterwards lol.

As for the martial arts thing mostly that just translates to punching and kicking but harder in comics. It's basically just superpowers.

It can also translate into fighting well, meaning, not getting hit as much, something Wolverine is very bad at.

Yeah, I actually mentioned that earlier that in his first fight with the Hulk, Wolvie got floored with one punch. If you read the entire fight, he couldn't even cut Hulk's body with his claws.

It was with the power creep that he could hang out with class 100s. He definitely wasn't at that level back in the day.

I think back then Hulk had super tough skin, like Superman, so actually penetrating his skin was very hard, makes sense Wolverine wouldn't manage to do if his skin was like that.

Think around the time Hulk also got a healing factor, his skin became weaker, so now anyone can make cut him or whatever, it's just not gonna slow him down for long.

Must've taken a while for the healing factor to show up, in Secret Wars, Hulk got his leg hurt by Ultron in issue#12, and by the end of the story it wasn't healed:



And as pointed out by TheCape, Wolverine had a rematch with Hulk in Hulk#340, where he can heal from being cut:



That's just 4 years of difference, so between 1984 and 1988, he got a healing factor, well, I'm assuming he didn't have it already in his own comic by that point lol.

[mace11]

If you compare just strength level, then yeah, he's around Cap and T'Challa's level, but the claws and his healing factor technically put him above 'em.

Black panther is above wolverine and captain america.

[mace11]

Normal current black panther vs wolverine?
Now physically wolverine is tougher and stronger but if you add black panther's equipment,then black panther would be stronger and tougher etc..

Here is some of the equipment that could put the wolverine out.

T'Challa (Earth-616)

Equipment

Panther Habit: As chieftain of the Wakandan Panther Clan, the ruler is crowned with a ceremonial regalia in the form of a Vibranium laced panther habit. T'Challa received this crown-like garb after being judged by the Panther Goddess. The appearance of the suit has changed over time, but has retained its ability to absorb vibrations via its Vibranium lacing, as well as negate or lessen powerful kinetic based attacks such as bullet shots, penetrating blades, and crushing blows. The lenses in the mask cut glare and enhance the Panther's natural night vision, and allow him to see in infrared and other visual spectrum. The suit features:


Vibranium Microweave Mesh: The microweave robs incoming objects of their momentum; bullets do not ricochet off, but simply fall to the ground when they come in contact with the weave. Likewise, the Panther cannot be stabbed; however, the costume can be cut if the attacker slashes along the uniform's grain.

Anti-Metal Claws: The Claws in the gloves are made of Antarctic Vibranium-based "Anti-Metal" that can break down basically all metals at the molecular level.

Energy-Dampening Boots: Energy regulators create varying fields from the Vibranium in the molded soles of the boots, enabling Panther to land soundlessly without any injury from heights of 50 feet. Given enough momentum, the Panther can also scale walls or skim across water. The field can be also used offensively to shatter or weaken objects, or defensively to rob incoming objects of their momentum as shown when he stopped a car thrown by the Hulk from crushing him by using the Vibranium in his boots.

Disguise Technology: The cloak can be elongated, shortened or eliminated with a thought, and the entire costume can be reconfigured by a light energy pulse allowing it to pass as normal street clothes or render T'Challa completely invisible.

Teleportation device: T'Challa has also been shown using a teleportation device as part of his standard gear. The range is not known as of this moment.

Hard-Light Shielding: T'Challa was shown using a small shield comprised of hardened light, to defend himself and others as part of his standard gear.

Vibranium Energy Daggers: Energy constructed blades, the wielder has the ability to gauge between power levels, releasing a beam, powerful enough to slice through various structures and foes. This weapon can also be fired as a projectile. Energy daggers are T'Challa's default weapon of choice in armed combat situations.

Force Push: T'Challa can use the stored kinetic energy in his suit to either enhance his strikes or release it as an omnidirectional energy burst.

Heavenly Armor: Lightweight body armor covering the user from head to toe in a similar fashion as Iron Man that operates by thought. It offers flight at high speeds, enhanced strength, and more protection in combat. The armor provides protection against mystical attacks and is equipped with various weapons.


Vibranium Armor: A special armor used during the Superhuman Civil War.

Wakanda Hulkbuster: a Hulkbuster Armor created by Black Panther to take the new Hulk, Amadeus Cho, down.

Black panther is and has been OP for while now because of the equipment he has used overtime.

[Zero Hunter]

Lets not even get into how OP the Panther has been made. He is pretty much as magical a character as Iron Man is now with his nanotech. His Vibranium can do ANYTHING if it makes sense or not. Whoever wrote that book was just furthering the stupid power creep.

[Midnight_v]

Lets not even get into how OP the Panther has been made. He is pretty much as magical a character as Iron Man is now with his nanotech. His Vibranium can do ANYTHING if it makes sense or not. Whoever wrote that book was just furthering the stupid power creep.

Talking about power creep. He's that because he's black and marvel needed that. He wasn't in invincible vibranium-mesh-weave-3X Blessed -death king armor either. Personally I always preferred blade, I feel about panther now the way people prolly feel about wolverine, and batman. When he fought Marvels version of the flash and said "Vibranium remembers when it was a meteor" I laughed out loud and spit out my drink.
They've fought 4 times. 2 for logan, 2 for t'challa but neither of them are dead yet so ... we're all lucky for it.

That being said this:

Sure, not denying that, just pointing out that "Wolverine was always too strong because he debuted fighting the Hulk" isn't really accurate, because he definitely wasn't blocking Hulk's punches with his face like it tends to happen afterwards lol.

1. The argument stands.
The actual quote you pulled from the book is: A glancing blow that could shatter Mountains. Hulk can shatter mountains. I mean in the begining his biggest foes were him throwing around Tanks like they were Tonka toys.
A lot of people don't understand or remember what the hulk really was supposed to be like in the early books …. They're spelling out that his durability is a big deal. Always has been.

2. It is what it is.
Hulk got his healing factor via the writers cause they stole it from wolvie. He really kinda started the whole healing factor thing for everybody. Imho. I say that to point out that ALL the characters that are popular have power creep, but most of them DON'T get popularity creep from it like wolverine to the point that he gets threads like this.
Wolverine hasn't become too powerful in fact he hasn't even kept up with the speed of traffic.

Hes crept up a little...

but as illustrated above... not nearly as much as some have. T'challa, Tony, Reed, DOOM... ... ... wanda... Carol... lets be honest Logan is... Logan is way down that line. Unless you're just not a fan of him. Which is fine, I guess,
he's just a little guy tho, y'know. ($_$)


EDIT:
One more thing.

because he definitely wasn't blocking Hulk's punches with his face like it tends to happen afterwards lol.

I know it happens some but that happens in fights, but did you NOT read WWhulk.

He's not face tanking anything on that day.

[Lukmendes]

Black panther is above wolverine and captain america.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...1560-07.jp.jpg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...4694-17.jp.jpg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...1084-14.jp.jpg

Huh, alright, I admitedly had forgotten about that.

1. The argument stands.
The actual quote you pulled from the book is: A glancing blow that could shatter Mountains. Hulk can shatter mountains. I mean in the begining his biggest foes were him throwing around Tanks like they were Tonka toys.
A lot of people don't understand or remember what the hulk really was supposed to be like in the early books …. They're spelling out that his durability is a big deal. Always has been.

I literally said this:

He dodges just enough to avoid most of the punch's impact, and his stamina is how he survived just that "scratch", so while Wolverine was always tough since his debut, he definitely couldn't actually tank Hulk's attacks as much as he does now, since just a scratch knocked him down immediately lol.

So to repeat, he is tough, has always been tough, but "He gets knocked down immediately from avoiding most of a punch's impact" and "Can get punched by the Hulk and still fight" are different levels.

I know it happens some but that happens in fights, but did you NOT read WWhulk.

He's not face tanking anything on that day.

I did read WWH, no idea why that's relevant since my comment about blocking with his face is a joke about how Wolverine doesn't dodge much when fighting Hulk compared to that first fight lol.

[mace11]

This was posted in the thread below.
Thor vs wolverine.


Keep this mind.

Wolverine

Superhuman Speed: Wolverine is able to move at low level superhuman speeds. He has attacked faster than the eye could follow and even Spider-Man briefly thought Wolverine was faster than he was in their first fight. His combat speed seems more enhanced then anything else, as he has frequently kept up with Spider-Man in combat, and blitzed people before they pull their trigger fingers.

Thor

Superhuman Speed: Thor can move significantly faster than any human on foot, and can reach up to Mach 32 when throwing Mjolnir.

Thor has the ability to fly at great speed far beyond the abilities of a human being. He is often seen flying at very fast speeds and has even kept up with the Silver Surfer. He has flown several times faster than light on multiple occasions. Though Thor’s running speed has never been accurately measured, though he has been seen moving at speeds faster than the finest human athlete.

Superhuman Senses

Though rarely displayed Thor possesses some god-like senses. He's able to see as far as the edge of the solar system and track objects traveling faster than the speed of light. He can also hear cries from the other side of the planet. He can see molecules/atoms and colors/wavelengths invisible to humans.

THREAD: WHY DID MANY PEOPLE WHINE ABOUT THE BLACK PANTHER ARMBAR SURFER THING

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...er-thing/page7

[Midnight_v]

I did read WWH, no idea why that's relevant since my comment about blocking with his face is a joke about how Wolverine doesn't dodge much when fighting Hulk compared to that first fight lol

Fair enough. My bad. Nor should he though. I mean. Its not like the hulks powers haven't become more defined and expanded as years went on. But fair enough.

THREAD: WHY DID MANY PEOPLE WHINE ABOUT THE BLACK PANTHER ARMBAR SURFER THING

More like "Why did people whine and cry when others pointed out how stupid that was" I mean... Its not a crime to say someone "jobbed" it up a bit. But I mean ... the silver surfer has basically every power.
He can become intangible. . . He can sit in the heart of a star... He's snatched thing out of black holes. He can produce heat greater than 10 suns. I'm pretty sure he can tear through layers and layers of vibranium shielding...
Its just like, the idea of him being defeated with an armbar is laughable. And if wolverine or blade or cap or spidey did it I'd be saying the same thing. Tf.

[JudicatorPrime]

Lets not even get into how OP the Panther has been made. He is pretty much as magical a character as Iron Man is now with his nanotech. His Vibranium can do ANYTHING if it makes sense or not. Whoever wrote that book was just furthering the stupid power creep.

They really have gone too far with some of this stuff. But nothing surprises me any more.

[Baron of Faltine]

They really have gone too far with some of this stuff. But nothing surprises me any more.

You know between this thread, punishers, previous discussion about daredevil and blade, as well as the epic endless arguing about certain uberpopular caped crusader of DC comics and his kicking family...perhaps the issue is with the so called "streetlevel" heroes and villains rather than single characters.

[Triniking1234]

I feel like 80s T'Challa would beat 80s Wolverine since we've seen that good martial artists can take him down.

But now T'Challa could probably borrow Mjolnir and f**k Logan up.