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  1. #61
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    If Wolverine were to back to his early days power levels, would most of you be ok with Spider-Man going back to struggling to lift a car, Iron Man back in his original armors instead of whatever nanotech he's using these days, Black Panther back in tights instead of vibranium armor or vibranium everything, Jean Grey back to a low level telekinetic and telepath, the Hulk being brought back down to MCU Hulk levels, etc. ?
    Ah yes another truth. The power level grown for everyone. It is a necessity considering the evolving of things.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    If Wolverine were to back to his early days power levels, would most of you be ok with Spider-Man going back to struggling to lift a car, Iron Man back in his original armors instead of whatever nanotech he's using these days, Black Panther back in tights instead of vibranium armor or vibranium everything, Jean Grey back to a low level telekinetic and telepath, the Hulk being brought back down to MCU Hulk levels, etc. ?
    Honestly, I'd be okay with all this with the exception of Black Panther going back to black tights. I always thought 10 tons was more than Spidey should be able to press, nanotech just makes everything too easy for an already incredibly powerful character, MCU Hulk is one of my favorite iterations of the character, and let's not even get into Jean Grey and the Phoenix.
    "Overturn everything! Can't he just write an executive order that says: 'Everything Trump did is now overturned. F**k that guy.' signed, Joe Biden."

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    If Wolverine were to back to his early days power levels, would most of you be ok with Spider-Man going back to struggling to lift a car, Iron Man back in his original armors instead of whatever nanotech he's using these days, Black Panther back in tights instead of vibranium armor or vibranium everything, Jean Grey back to a low level telekinetic and telepath, the Hulk being brought back down to MCU Hulk levels, etc. ?
    Considering how often Tony gets his armor ripped appart by Carol, Namor or even weaker characters nowadays, reverting to his old suit may actually be a power up.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Considering how often Tony gets his armor ripped appart by Carol, Namor or even weaker characters nowadays, reverting to his old suit may actually be a power up.
    Exactly.

    80s Iron Man especially was a heavy hitter that fought and at a point knocked out the Hulk and stalemated Silver Surfer.

    He's one that's actually been depowered.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    If Wolverine were to back to his early days power levels, would most of you be ok with Spider-Man going back to struggling to lift a car, Iron Man back in his original armors instead of whatever nanotech he's using these days, Black Panther back in tights instead of vibranium armor or vibranium everything, Jean Grey back to a low level telekinetic and telepath, the Hulk being brought back down to MCU Hulk levels, etc. ?
    No. I like BP with his vibranium and Jean Grey as Powerful (or as the Phoenix). The rest can go back.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    This argument is similar to the Batman is too competent argument. Power creep and characters getting more powerful over time is common in comics, it happens to numerous characters, why is Wolverine now the poster boy for it being a problem? Even among the X-men many characters are getting massive upgrades in power and their fans are loving it. Everyone wants their personal fave to be an uber powerful omega level mutant who can curb stomp anyone, and God forbid if they have to struggle in a fight or actually lose. Wolverine may be more "powerful" now than when he was first introduced but in terms of the average power levels of MU characters he is low tier. Reality warpers, energy manipulators, telepaths, magic users, ect... he is nowhere near their level. All he has is a great healing factor and suddenly that is a bridge to far, that's the straw that broke the camel's back. I think there are plenty of other characters you can claim have become to powerful long before you get to Logan, but I suppose it's easier to single him out because he gets all the hate.
    I agree with you points particularly concerning fans of characters wanting their favorites to be OMEGA level at everything. Making a character more powerful does not make them a better or even a more interesting character. Sometimes I believe fans forget that the real interesting aspects of characters are their flaws and weaknesses. I would rather writer create interesting uses of a character powers instead of just upping their power. I remember the original "Days of Future Past" story when the sentinel killed future Wolverine with the energy blast. Then I remember in the Xavier protocol Wolverine entry it was said that the only way to ensure killing Wolverine was to drown him. You may also have cut off his head and bury it in a separate location than his body,

    Lastly the best thing that can happen to a character is to be put through the wringer. To struggle and fail miserably at something and maybe later overcome it or just survive it. It seems those days may be over for most of the X-Men characters but that is another topic all together.

  7. #67
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    If Wolverine were to back to his early days power levels, would most of you be ok with Spider-Man going back to struggling to lift a car, Iron Man back in his original armors instead of whatever nanotech he's using these days, Black Panther back in tights instead of vibranium armor or vibranium everything, Jean Grey back to a low level telekinetic and telepath, the Hulk being brought back down to MCU Hulk levels, etc. ?
    Yes, I would totally be ok with that.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I was really hoping when Wolverine came back from the dead they would crank back his healing powers, but nope same overpowered mess.

    Honestly I would be more than happy to see every "omega level" mutant powered down, and the whole concept never used again. Right along with secondary mutations.

  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Especially with Wolverine it's quite baffling.

    Wolverine has a lot of fans that just love him as OP as he is now..but I think the power creep is a bit of a problem IMO.

    In the past, Wolverine used those claws because he got into situations where he could be legitimately killed. That's not to say his healing factor didn't help him but he could be incapacitated by guys using swords and guns and possibly killed. When he first fought the Hulk he did a lot of dodging and didn't engage one on one; he eventually got knocked out when Hulk landed a clean blow on him (albeit when he was distracted). Nowadays, he regularly hacks down guys that couldn't kill him in a million years (thinking of it, how many villains have killed more people than Wolverine on-panel?). It drains the tension out of a lot of situations with Logan because we the reader know the ordinary mooks he's fighting can't really do much to him which wasn't the case in the past.

    Sometimes writers need to think a bit more carefully about some of this. It's not enough to just write "kewl" stuff, making a character too powerful can easily drain the tension out of the action.
    I agree with you points particularly concerning fans of characters wanting their favorites to be OMEGA level at everything. Making a character more powerful does not make them a better or even a more interesting character. Sometimes I believe fans forget that the real interesting aspects of characters are their flaws and weaknesses. I would rather writer create interesting uses of a character powers instead of just upping their power. I remember the original "Days of Future Past" story when the sentinel killed future Wolverine with the energy blast. Then I remember in the Xavier protocol Wolverine entry it was said that the only way to ensure killing Wolverine was to drown him. You may also have cut off his head and bury it in a separate location than his body,

    Lastly the best thing that can happen to a character is to be put through the wringer. To struggle and fail miserably at something and maybe later overcome it or just survive it. It seems those days may be over for most of the X-Men characters but that is another topic all together.
    In agreement with the both of you about how much of a struggle it was for him in the past.
    An example would be from DPS, when Logan exerted so much effort trying to get to that last level & face the "final boss".
    It's stuff like that that's sadly missing these days.


  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    Pretty much every character has received a massive power boost since their inception, but it becomes a problem when Wolverine receives one it seems.
    Trying being A Tchalla fan and defending his slight power creeps over the years

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Considering how often Tony gets his armor ripped appart by Carol, Namor or even weaker characters nowadays, reverting to his old suit may actually be a power up.
    You know all considered I always wondered why Tony didn't built an adamantium armor, I mean he can do that, why not doing that...ahh who I am joking that would end up like the invisibility system, the short teleport system, the infinite weapons system.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariel81 View Post
    Trying being A Tchalla fan and defending his slight power creeps over the years
    Yeah...is kind of frustrating....and yet none of these effin critics say how exactly can these heroes be effective when facing some challenges beyond street criminal who follow the gentleman rule to attack you once perhaps two at time and have stormtroopers level of aim.
    Really ou say Wolverine should not heal that fast? OK. Than explain me how he could tackle someone like Nitro or even better how he could help against a sentinel.
    EXPLAIN YOUR MOTIVATIONS

  13. #73
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Exactly.

    80s Iron Man especially was a heavy hitter that fought and at a point knocked out the Hulk and stalemated Silver Surfer.

    He's one that's actually been depowered.
    Silver surfer powers too had been nerfed soooooo many times, that he could as well be kryptonian(everyone in the universe has at least a piece of kryptonite and a cosmic power damper...)
    And amongst the x-men we should talk about the ridiculous power down the summers brothers suffered. CYCLOPS eye beam used to be able to level funking mountains! Now if they can scratch a sentinel armor is already something.....

  14. #74
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariel81 View Post
    Trying being A Tchalla fan and defending his slight power creeps over the years
    I see in the Avengers game they gave him summoning powers. What the f*ck? Can I get back Ninja Gaiden T'Challa please?
    "Cable was right!"

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I see in the Avengers game they gave him summoning powers. What the f*ck? Can I get back Ninja Gaiden T'Challa please?
    As long as ninja T'Challa can face demon gods and mad titans.
    That is the price to stay in superhero team. Batman's wouldn't need a power up nor Superman would need their power level and competence fluctuate if they are not in same team at the same moment.

    Honestly you guys fetishize the Stealth mode little too much. Unless they pack some hell of magic technique or weapon, a ninja cannot do shit to a tank..

    In rpg term....rogues are nice and dandy, but shot of natural 20 is unlikely they can't take down Tiamat.

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