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  1. #106
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    Who are those Turkish and Pakastani people Jean is talking to?

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    Who are those Turkish and Pakastani people Jean is talking to?
    I may be wrong, but I think they are unnamed world leaders and great thinkers. On the next page, Jean refers to the people she's reached out to as "some of the greatest thinkers on Earth":



    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I remembered this page from X-Men: Red and wanted to post it here for further discussion. Here, Black Panther makes clear, "That wasn't you, Jean," which she does not deny. She simply acknowledges, "I was a part of it," which, of course, is true. After all, "it" did contain a fragment of her psyche.


  3. #108
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    New evidence that I can't argue with. Like, she's not even mentioning a clone:


  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    New evidence that I can't argue with. Like, she's not even mentioning a clone:

    I was going to come post this here but you beat me to it. Seems like Jean gave us the final word.
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I was going to come post this here but you beat me to it. Seems like Jean gave us the final word.
    I should have added this here...

    Jean accepting that she acted as “a vessel for death” doesn’t negate the fact that, in the end, it was a clone imbued with a fragment of her psyche, using an exact copy of her “brainwaves,” but thrust into situations that involved mind control and falsified “realities” and memories - situations Jean had never been subjected to - that was responsible for the “sins” of Dark Phoenix. It’s also important to note: We’ve seen how another Jean clone imbued with and animated by the same exact fragment, and also subjected to mind-control and falsified memories, would eventually act.

    In the past, Jean has taken responsibility and faulted herself for the actions of both Dark Phoenix and Madelyne Pryor. Being the empath that she is, coupled with the fact that both clones were literally made “from her,” it’s understandable why she feels this way. On some level, she will always blame herself for the actions of Dark Phoenix. In part, this is why I love her: She isn’t afraid to acknowledge when she has been a part of or done something wrong. Note, however, that she does not refute what T’Challa says here. She only makes clear that a part of her was connected to Dark Phoenix, i.e., “a part of it,” which, of course, is true. I take her admissions during the speech to mean the same thing.


  6. #111
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    Iím glad xmen 4 put to rest the it was just a clone spiel, Jean says it herself.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I was going to come post this here but you beat me to it. Seems like Jean gave us the final word.
    My thoughts exactly

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I should have added this here...

    Jean accepting that she acted as “a vessel for death” doesn’t negate the fact that, in the end, it was a clone imbued with a fragment of her psyche, using an exact copy of her “brainwaves,” but thrust into situations that involved mind control and falsified “realities” and memories - situations Jean had never been subjected to - that was responsible for the “sins” of Dark Phoenix. It’s also important to note: We’ve seen how another Jean clone imbued with and animated by the same exact fragment, and also subjected to mind-control and falsified memories, would eventually act.

    In the past, Jean has taken responsibility and faulted herself for the actions of both Dark Phoenix and Madelyne Pryor. Being the empath that she is, coupled with the fact that both clones were literally made “from her,” it’s understandable why she feels this way. On some level, she will always blame herself for the actions of Dark Phoenix. In part, this is why I love her: She isn’t afraid to acknowledge when she has been a part of or done something wrong. Note, however, that she does not refute what T’Challa says here. She only makes clear that a part of her was connected to Dark Phoenix, i.e., “a part of it,” which, of course, is true. I take her admissions during the speech to mean the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    However much we may dislike or disagree with it, we should always go by the last update on any character regarding any given aspect of their life and history.

    I’d take Jean’s word on her actions over T’Challa’s personally.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I’d take Jean’s word on her actions over T’Challa’s personally.


    Checkmate.

  10. #115
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    It seems that he did confirm that she wasn't DP despite what she says in-panel.
    But we know she held the memories of both P/DP and Maddie in her mind for a while and from her perspective, because her soul/essence and facsimiles of her body were used, she feels in part responsible (even if she herself did not actually commit the atrocities)...and since neither PF nor Maddie are around to speak for themselves, she owns it.
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  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post


    Checkmate.
    Not exactly. It doesn’t change the fact that she said she was Dark Phoenix at the Hellfire Gala which was not a dream or nightmare but waking reality.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It seems that he did confirm that she wasn't DP despite what she says in-panel.
    But we know she held the memories of both P/DP and Maddie in her mind for a while and from her perspective, because her soul/essence and facsimiles of her body were used, she feels in part responsible (even if she herself did not actually commit the atrocities)...and since neither PF nor Maddie are around to speak for themselves, she owns it.
    She wasnt dreaming or having nightmare when she said she was DP at the Hellfire Gala so it really doesnt change what was said in the book.

  13. #118
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Jean is and wasnt Phoenix. That may seem contradictory on paper but its really not that hard to comprehend. The retcon hasnt been undone, but later material has shed more context onto the story

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post


    Checkmate.
    So you’re abandoning your claim that we should go with the latest information available? Twitter isn’t a comic book, and Jean wasn’t dreaming at the gala? If we go by what a writer says on Twitter than that changes a whole mess of stuff lol.
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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    She wasnt dreaming or having nightmare when she said she was DP at the Hellfire Gala so it really doesnt change what was said in the book.
    We already know she blames herself, so the her speech at the Gala doesn't suddenly make the fact that there was a Phoenix clone of her disappear.

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