Is Jean Grey responsible for the actions taken by the two clones made of her?

[Mercury]

This thread really makes me think what a mess Jean's head must be.

She kinda died that one time, a mostly identical clone took over her place, then the clone kinda died, then another clone showed up, got married with Cyclops and had a kid, went evil and ****, now she has both of their memories, then her teenager year old self time traveled to the future, learned a bunch of **** like how she's gonna die a few times and everyone's gonna say her boyfriend is a terrorist, then the teenager self went back to her time and now adult Jean has her memories too.

So basically she suddenly got the memories from two versions of herself of a part of her life she didn't remember living (Phoenix clone and Jeen) and now she suddenly does, and another set of memories from a completely different person, and to make it weirder, she now has more than one first impressions of someone, like meeting a Kitty being older than her who's a badass ninja hacker who runs away from marriages, and also meeting the same Kitty who's younger than her and whines about Xavier being a jerk... I just hope she doesn't have Madelyne's memories from when she was trying to **** with her son from an alternate universe.

I know I'm not saying anything new but, man, imagine having such memories on your head, makes me wonder if she can defeat a telepath by just letting them look at her memories, and then they have an aneurysm trying to understand this whole nonsense .

This is one of the many aspects of her character that fascinate me so and which I want further explored!

[Lukmendes]

She's a telepath. Im sure she's able to make more sense of it and cope than the other O5 X-men

Probably, but still must be a mess, on top of Phoenix Clone and Madelyne.

Can only wonder how the O5 handle this, 'cause it can get messy, like, imagine Cyclops, a desperate leader doing everything he can to save mutants, and relatively at the same time thinking of himself as mutant Hitler lol.

She doesnt have any memories of X-man's relationship with Maddie bc that was a different Maddie, one that he created. Her memories are of the orgiinal Maddie that died in Inferno

Less bad lol.

This is one of the many aspects of her character that fascinate me so and which I want further explored!

Certainly a lot of ground to explore, she also saw her Ultimate counterpart's memories, so there's that to pile up slightly more, guess she could always mention that time Ultimate Jean made Spidey and Wolverine switch bodies, and use that to jokingly threaten Wolverine if he's ever too much of a pain in the ass .

Oh well, would need a writer who really knows how to develop characters with odd stories for this to work (kinda like how Ewing developed the Devil Hulk personality in Immortal Hulk), 'cause starting to use this "Jean has her own memories, memories of a clone, memories of an evil clone, and memories of a time traveling teenager version of herself" to develop her character would be difficult, as it can easily be used for really long, really boring info dumps that go nowhere and are just confusing.

I guess it's a good thing Phoenix is out of the picture, or that'd be worse, isn't the Phoenix Force Thor's mother now? Weird if so.

[Mercury]

Certainly a lot of ground to explore, she also saw her Ultimate counterpart's memories, so there's that to pile up slightly more, guess she could always mention that time Ultimate Jean made Spidey and Wolverine switch bodies, and use that to jokingly threaten Wolverine if he's ever too much of a pain in the ass .

Oh well, would need a writer who really knows how to develop characters with odd stories for this to work (kinda like how Ewing developed the Devil Hulk personality in Immortal Hulk), 'cause starting to use this "Jean has her own memories, memories of a clone, memories of an evil clone, and memories of a time traveling teenager version of herself" to develop her character would be difficult, as it can easily be used for really long, really boring info dumps that go nowhere and are just confusing.

I guess it's a good thing Phoenix is out of the picture, or that'd be worse, isn't the Phoenix Force Thor's mother now? Weird if so.

Unpacking her history would certainly take a great and knowledgeable writer. Moreover, it would probably necessitate a limited or ongoing solo series to effectively delve into her memories and explore how they've impacted her. Furthermore, while the murder of her family happened when she was dead, I think how it has affected her since her resurrection is a facet of her character that should also be examined.

The thing about Jean is, while she is undoubtedly an iconic comic book character, there is still so much about her life that has been left unsaid. Doing a deep-dive into her history and internal life could make for a truly compelling story, not only about what it means to be a superpowered mutant but also, on some level, at least, what it means to be human.

At the risk of seeming melodramatic, I'll end this reply with a Sylvia Plath poem and a swathe of Walt Whitman that I often recall when I think of Jean, and which I would love a writer to evoke in a piece centered on her:

I have done it again.
One year in every ten
I manage it—

A sort of walking miracle, my skin
Bright as a Nazi lampshade,
My right foot

A paperweight,
My face a featureless, fine
Jew linen.

Peel off the napkin
O my enemy.
Do I terrify?—

The nose, the eye pits, the full set of teeth?
The sour breath
Will vanish in a day.

Soon, soon the flesh
The grave cave ate will be
At home on me

And I a smiling woman.
I am only thirty.
And like the cat I have nine times to die.

This is Number Three.
What a trash
To annihilate each decade.

What a million filaments.
The peanut-crunching crowd
Shoves in to see

Them unwrap me hand and foot—
The big strip tease.
Gentlemen, ladies

These are my hands
My knees.
I may be skin and bone,

Nevertheless, I am the same, identical woman.
The first time it happened I was ten.
It was an accident.

The second time I meant
To last it out and not come back at all.
I rocked shut

As a seashell.
They had to call and call
And pick the worms off me like sticky pearls.

Dying
Is an art, like everything else.
I do it exceptionally well.

I do it so it feels like hell.
I do it so it feels real.
I guess you could say I've a call.

It's easy enough to do it in a cell.
It's easy enough to do it and stay put.
It's the theatrical

Comeback in broad day
To the same place, the same face, the same brute
Amused shout:

'A miracle!'
That knocks me out.
There is a charge

For the eyeing of my scars, there is a charge
For the hearing of my heart—
It really goes.

And there is a charge, a very large charge
For a word or a touch
Or a bit of blood

Or a piece of my hair or my clothes.
So, so, Herr Doktor.
So, Herr Enemy.

I am your opus,
I am your valuable,
The pure gold baby

That melts to a shriek.
I turn and burn.
Do not think I underestimate your great concern.

Ash, ash—
You poke and stir.
Flesh, bone, there is nothing there--

A cake of soap,
A wedding ring,
A gold filling.

Herr God, Herr Lucifer
Beware
Beware.

Out of the ash
I rise with my red hair
And I eat men like air.

- "Lady Lazarus," Sylvia Plath

And:

Failing to fetch me at first, keep encouraged;
Missing me one place, search another;
I stop somewhere, waiting for you.

- "Song of Myself," Walt Whitman

[Rev9]

This is one of the many aspects of her character that fascinate me so and which I want further explored!

At this rate Jean is a female Legion

[Lukmendes]

Unpacking her history would certainly take a great and knowledgeable writer. Moreover, it would probably necessitate a limited or ongoing solo series to effectively delve into her memories and explore how they've impacted her.

Yeah, developing a character well can be hard enough as is, trying to use the 2 clones 1 time traveler memories into a selling point to develop Jean further? Really difficult, not to mention not new reader friendly, since the clones and the time traveling happened in the middle of other stories, so explaining all of this in a way that isn't a boring wall text, again, really difficult, though not impossible.

Furthermore, while the murder of her family happened when she was dead, I think how it has affected her since her resurrection is a facet of her character that should also be examined.

Weird that it isn't to be fair, X-Men Red should've done something lol.

The thing about Jean is, while she is undoubtedly an iconic comic book character, there is still so much about her life that has been left unsaid. Doing a deep-dive into her history and internal life could make for a truly compelling story, not only about what it means to be a superpowered mutant but also, on some level, at least, what it means to be human.

It can be odd when iconic characters aren't that developed as characters, on the DC side, I saw the Superman threads mentioning once that Lois Lane's backstory hasn't been developed much, considering her character is 83 years old, that's just baffling.

Can't even excuse that she's a civilian, Mary Jane has that parallel lives comic that tells her story, and before that parts of her story were shown in ASM in the 80's.

I guess in Jean's case it's a bit more understandable, not excusing it mind you, but being part of a team with a million characters, and spending a lot of her time dead, gets in the way, but even before her first death they had 20 years to do stuff with her, so yeah, if Marvel isn't saying much about her character, that's just annoying.

Now I'm kinda wondering if Jean has it as bad as Sue, 'cause Sue got a mini and apparently that did more to her character than 20 years of comics, at least according to Crimz, and that's just depressing, 'cause the mini was fun but didn't make her too deep as a character.

And yes, my X-Men knowledge is very spotty, to put it nicely lol.

At the risk of seeming melodramatic, I'll end this reply with a Sylvia Plath poem and a swathe of Walt Whitman that I often recall when I think of Jean, and which I would love a writer to evoke in a piece centered on her:

I legit burst out laughing at the "Dying. Is an art, like everything else. I do it exceptionally well." lol.

Can't say much about the rest of the poetries, not something I'm good at.

At this rate Jean is a female Legion

Now now, she needs a ridiculous hairstyle to be a true Legion .

[Rev9]

Now now, she needs a ridiculous hairstyle to be a true Legion .[/QUOTE]

I think that can be easily arranged ,Storm has had close to legion type hairdos..why not Jean?

[Lukmendes]

I think that can be easily arranged ,Storm has had close to legion type hairdos..why not Jean?

Good point, they are friends after all, maybe Storm can even give Jean a few tips to even try surpass Storm's own hair's, and maybe Legion's, in ridiculousness .

[Mercury]

Yeah, developing a character well can be hard enough as is, trying to use the 2 clones 1 time traveler memories into a selling point to develop Jean further? Really difficult, not to mention not new reader friendly, since the clones and the time traveling happened in the middle of other stories, so explaining all of this in a way that isn't a boring wall text, again, really difficult, though not impossible.

But I really, really want it, lol! It could be done, but, again, it would require a limited solo series.

Weird that it isn't to be fair, X-Men Red should've done something lol.

Well, to be fair, they did briefly show her reacting to this news both in Phoenix Resurrection and The Trial of Jean Grey arc, but I think having your entire family murdered because of something a clone of you did warrants a little more exploration. I don't think that's something even a telepath of Jean's strength and stature would or could get over easily.

It can be odd when iconic characters aren't that developed as characters, on the DC side, I saw the Superman threads mentioning once that Lois Lane's backstory hasn't been developed much, considering her character is 83 years old, that's just baffling.

Can't even excuse that she's a civilian, Mary Jane has that parallel lives comic that tells her story, and before that parts of her story were shown in ASM in the 80's.

I guess in Jean's case it's a bit more understandable, not excusing it mind you, but being part of a team with a million characters, and spending a lot of her time dead, gets in the way, but even before her first death they had 20 years to do stuff with her, so yeah, if Marvel isn't saying much about her character, that's just annoying.

Now I'm kinda wondering if Jean has it as bad as Sue, 'cause Sue got a mini and apparently that did more to her character than 20 years of comics, at least according to Crimz, and that's just depressing, 'cause the mini was fun but didn't make her too deep as a character.

And yes, my X-Men knowledge is very spotty, to put it nicely lol.

It's a shame that this is the case, and it always seems to be the female characters, even when they are iconic, who suffer the most.

I legit burst out laughing at the "Dying. Is an art, like everything else. I do it exceptionally well." lol.

Can't say much about the rest of the poetries, not something I'm good at.

I love that bit. "Dying is an art, like everything else. I do it exceptionally well," is a quote I've used often. Also, the last stanza, down to the red hair:

Out of the ash
I rise with my red hair
And I eat men like air.

[Lukmendes]

But I really, really want it, lol! It could be done, but, again, it would require a limited solo series.

Honestly, if the objective is solely to develop Jean and not a mini adventure, I think something like ASM Parallel Lives would be better, that way you have the whole story in one issue that tells this nonsense that is Jean's head, instead of publishing one issue at a time, would make it an easier read with fewer distractions at least.

Though a mini adventure could work too, if it makes thematic sense to make Jean think about those things that is.

Well, to be fair, they did briefly show her reacting to this news both in Phoenix Resurrection and The Trial of Jean Grey arc, but I think having your entire family murdered because of something a clone of you did warrants a little more exploration.

Right, I forgot Phoenix Resurrection had Jean as one of the few who doesn't act like a robot lol.

Seriously, at some point when reading that I was thinking "Aren't those guys supposed to be friends? Why do they sound so callous?"

Either way, even that moment was too brief, it's was just her being sad about those deaths for a few panels, Jean talking to Cyclops and reacting to him dying right after had more weight (Though that being actually Scott and not an illusion helps).

I don't think that's something even a telepath of Jean's strength and stature would or could get over easily.

That's the second time I see this being mentioned here, is someone who's a telepath less likely to suffer from emotional pain? Or maybe being a telepath means they understand the human mind more so they know how to deal with those emotions better?

It's a shame that this is the case, and it always seems to be the female characters, even when they are iconic, who suffer the most.

Well, the industry is male driven, writers are generally men, fanbase are generally men who generally prefer male characters, so since super-hero are this fantasy that generally attracts more men, both readers and writers, that means female characters will generally get the short end of the stick.

I mean sheesh, Jean got killed 'cause Quesada was throwing a tantrum against marriages, also why One More Day happened on Spider-Man, think Janet got killed back then for similar reasons too.

So that's the unfortunate reality here, comic books being old and the industry being slow doesn't help, guess at least Jean not being dead anymore is nice?

I love that bit. "Dying is an art, like everything else. I do it exceptionally well," is a quote I've used often.

Hope you don't mean it literally when quoting it, being experienced enough at dying to be good at it doesn't sound nice .a

[Mercury]

Honestly, if the objective is solely to develop Jean and not a mini adventure, I think something like ASM Parallel Lives would be better, that way you have the whole story in one issue that tells this nonsense that is Jean's head, instead of publishing one issue at a time, would make it an easier read with fewer distractions at least.

Though a mini adventure could work too, if it makes thematic sense to make Jean think about those things that is.

I agree; if they were to deep dive into her history and memories, I think it should run parallel to an adventure. I've rough-outlined a story in which, due to wanting to properly mourn the death of her family and the pressures of her pressing memories, she chooses to get away from Krakoa and all things X-Men and go on a solo cross-country road trip. Along the way, she helps random strangers and, occasionally, aids other heroes (Spider-Man, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four - all of whom she has some history with), while getting to know herself and connecting with humanity again.

In a way, it would be a continuation of X-Men: Red, but more personal and with a darker edge.

During the denouement of her story, she requests that her sister (Sara Grey-Bailey), niece (Gailyn Bailey), and nephew (Joey Bailey) be resurrected, revealing that Xavier once shared with her that all three were mutants. (Note: Instead of having Jean revived, Chris Claremont wanted to include Sara in X-Factor and reveal that she was a mutant with the ability to activate a mutant's latent abilities. [Source: https://www.comicsbeat.com/alternati...ht-have-been/] I would add that Sara could temporarily deactivate a mutant's ability, too, except for her sister's, of course. Also, Gailyn and Joey were said to be mutants. [Sources: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Gaily...y_(Earth-616);])

Right, I forgot Phoenix Resurrection had Jean as one of the few who doesn't act like a robot lol.

Seriously, at some point when reading that I was thinking "Aren't those guys supposed to be friends? Why do they sound so callous?"

Either way, even that moment was too brief, it's was just her being sad about those deaths for a few panels, Jean talking to Cyclops and reacting to him dying right after had more weight (Though that being actually Scott and not an illusion helps).

Yeah, Phoenix Resurrection wasn't the best comeback story. I recently got some more insight into the story from an extended interview with the author, Matthew Rosenberg, which was released a few days ago, but it just irritated me. I mean, Rosenberg had good intentions, I suppose, but he wasn't able to pull off a story worthy of what he envisioned, and, ultimately, I don't agree with the direction he took Jean in. Furthermore, according to him, Marvel initially wanted a "cosmic war thing" and the Phoenix Force to remain with Jean, but he suggested a story that was more psychological and a definite separation, "like a breakup," between Jean and the Phoenix Force.

Anyway, there are some cool moments in Phoenix Resurrection, so I still enjoy reading it, but I would have definitely written Jean's return differently. Also, I've made peace with the fact that the powers that be aren't going to return the Phoenix Force to Jean, and, actually, I'm happy with where she's at right now and seems to be heading, so it all worked out for the best. Catching up on Bendis' run and what he, Hopeless, Taylor, and others eventually did with Jean made me fall in love with the character all over again, without the Phoenix Force. Here's the interview with Rosenberg, in case you're interested in checking it out:

That's the second time I see this being mentioned here, is someone who's a telepath less likely to suffer from emotional pain? Or maybe being a telepath means they understand the human mind more so they know how to deal with those emotions better?

I've seen it suggested that, because she's an Omega Level telepath, she should have been able to "handle" or "get over" the murder of her family by now. Uh, that's certainly not a take I agree with.

Well, the industry is male driven, writers are generally men, fanbase are generally men who generally prefer male characters, so since super-hero are this fantasy that generally attracts more men, both readers and writers, that means female characters will generally get the short end of the stick.

I mean sheesh, Jean got killed 'cause Quesada was throwing a tantrum against marriages, also why One More Day happened on Spider-Man, think Janet got killed back then for similar reasons too.

So that's the unfortunate reality here, comic books being old and the industry being slow doesn't help...

Touché. I suppose we should be grateful that some progress has been made.

I guess at least Jean not being dead anymore is nice?

It's wonderful, actually. Frankly, she's the only reason I came back to comic books earlier this year. I was a big fan and collector some years back, but grew up and moved on. I still read comics and graphic novels here and there, but not like I used to, and certainly not anything X-Men-related. It was Dauterman's costumes portrait of Jean and deciding on a whim to read House of X and Powers of X that pulled me back in. So, I guess I should say it was a combination of Jean, Dauterman, and Hickman that lured me back to the world of mutants. Now, I'm basically sticking around to see what they do with Jean.

She's is a very important character to me; she always was. Seeing her back and possibly on the precipice of some major developments is exciting.

Hope you don't mean it literally when quoting it, being experienced enough at dying to be good at it doesn't sound nice .a

lol. No, I don't mean it literally. I mean, I've had many metaphorical deaths that have entailed reinventing myself and starting anew. I've lived a wild life and have undergone my own "Dark Phoenix phase," as I like to call it - don't worry, no planets were decimated and no one but myself was harmed - so I relate to Jean in a lot of ways.

Anyway, you've been refreshing to chat with. Thank you for being so engaging!

[brightnessatmidnight]

During that story arc with the the D'bari, Jean did make a distinction between the two, but she still acknowledged the culpability her soul-essence played during that event. It wouldn't make sense for her personally to whitewash that genocide while allowing herself to take on the codename Phoenix.


Jean: The D'Bari came to Earth to slay the murderer of his world. That's Dark Phoenix. On the psychic plane, he did just that. He got his closure, he expiated his grief and found a way to make peace with his past. The monster is no more. I'm just a woman who happens to look like her. Thing is, like it or not, on some level, that monster was me. I summoned the Phoenix, I allowed our souls to merge. I didn't want to die. But more, I didn't want the X-Men to die. I didn't want Scott to die. I set events in motion. From that perspective, doesn't that make me responsible?"

Beast: "Where do you go from here?"

Jean: "Phoenix was meant to represent the fire and passion that creates life. I choose to bear the name -- and do so proudly -- in order to set things right."

Cable: "That's a tall order, Jean, but nothing more than you've ever done."

Jean: "To do any less would be a denial of everything the X-Men stand for, of everything Professor Xavier taught me."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...hDsU%253Ds1600

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously. (Though I disagree with her taking full responsibility, I understand why she feels that way, She may have set things in motion but she wasn't the one who actually committed those atrocities)

A sentiment repeated in X-Men 04.

[Mercury]

During that story arc with the the D'bari, Jean did make a distinction between the two, but she still acknowledged the culpability her soul-essence played during that event. It wouldn't make sense for her personally to whitewash that genocide while allowing herself to take on the codename Phoenix.

Firstly, Dark Phoenix didn't commit genocide, which literally means "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group" (Oxford). She didn't deliberately kill the D'bari, nor did she target them because of their race/ethnicity.

Jean: The D'Bari came to Earth to slay the murderer of his world. That's Dark Phoenix. On the psychic plane, he did just that. He got his closure, he expiated his grief and found a way to make peace with his past. The monster is no more. I'm just a woman who happens to look like her. Thing is, like it or not, on some level, that monster was me. I summoned the Phoenix, I allowed our souls to merge. I didn't want to die. But more, I didn't want the X-Men to die. I didn't want Scott to die. I set events in motion. From that perspective, doesn't that make me responsible?"

Beast: "Where do you go from here?"

Jean: "Phoenix was meant to represent the fire and passion that creates life. I choose to bear the name -- and do so proudly -- in order to set things right."

Cable: "That's a tall order, Jean, but nothing more than you've ever done."

Jean: "To do any less would be a denial of everything the X-Men stand for, of everything Professor Xavier taught me."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...hDsU%253Ds1600

As for the rest of your post, Jean said it perfectly. And, it's precisely why I love her.

[Lukmendes]

I agree; if they were to deep dive into her history and memories, I think it should run parallel to an adventure. I've rough-outlined a story in which, due to wanting to properly mourn the death of her family and the pressures of her pressing memories, she chooses to get away from Krakoa and all things X-Men and go on a solo cross-country road trip. Along the way, she helps random strangers and, occasionally, aids other heroes (Spider-Man, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four - all of whom she has some history with), while getting to know herself and connecting with humanity again.

Reminds me of Superman: Grounded, Cap got a similar story after Secret Empire too, I guess this would be Jean's turn to have a "Jean Grey: Grounded" story? .

During the denouement of her story, she requests that her sister (Sara Grey-Bailey), niece (Gailyn Bailey), and nephew (Joey Bailey) be resurrected, revealing that Xavier once shared with her that all three were mutants. (Note: Instead of having Jean revived, Chris Claremont wanted to include Sara in X-Factor and reveal that she was a mutant with the ability to activate a mutant's latent abilities. [Source: https://www.comicsbeat.com/alternati...ht-have-been/] I would add that Sara could temporarily deactivate a mutant's ability, too, except for her sister's, of course. Also, Gailyn and Joey were said to be mutants. [Sources: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Gaily...y_(Earth-616);])

Hm, that could feel like a cop out, I mean if part of the story is about her grieving, then her returning to Krakoa to get her sister and nephews resurrected would partially cheapen how she was feeling earlier.

Then again, I guess it's only 3 out of the whole family, so guess there's the unique situation where not everyone is resurrected... It could still feel a bit sudden for them to be resurrected, not to mention that if they get resurrected, they'd better do something afterwards lol.

Also could be weird to re-confirm after so long they're mutants that Xavier just happened to know and save their data.

Yeah, Phoenix Resurrection wasn't the best comeback story. I recently got some more insight into the story from an extended interview with the author, Matthew Rosenberg, which was released a few days ago, but it just irritated me. I mean, Rosenberg had good intentions, I suppose, but he wasn't able to pull off a story worthy of what he envisioned, and, ultimately, I don't agree with the direction he took Jean in. Furthermore, according to him, Marvel initially wanted a "cosmic war thing" and the Phoenix Force to remain with Jean, but he suggested a story that was more psychological and a definite separation, "like a breakup," between Jean and the Phoenix Force.

I'm sure the cosmic war was suggested to have a bunch of tie-ins to it, like Wolverine's own resurrection lol.

Anyway, there are some cool moments in Phoenix Resurrection, so I still enjoy reading it, but I would have definitely written Jean's return differently. Also, I've made peace with the fact that the powers that be aren't going to return the Phoenix Force to Jean, and, actually, I'm happy with where she's at right now and seems to be heading, so it all worked out for the best.

Honestly, I think Jean's better off without the Phoenix, for now at least, she's already super powerful without it, and being around without needing to be defined by the Phoenix can do favors for her character, specially since nowadays Phoenix is made to be this out of control bird.

It can be a temporary thing, though I honestly think anyone having the Phoenix is overkill, but again, for now, they might be better separated.

Catching up on Bendis' run and what he, Hopeless, Taylor, and others eventually did with Jean made me fall in love with the character all over again, without the Phoenix Force. Here's the interview with Rosenberg, in case you're interested in checking it out:

Thanks.

I've seen it suggested that, because she's an Omega Level telepath, she should have been able to "handle" or "get over" the murder of her family by now. Uh, that's certainly not a take I agree with.

I dunno, unless being a telepath gives a secondary power that makes her feel less emotional pain, or she understands how to deal with emotions better because she understands the human mind better, if there isn't some explanation like those or something else, I don't see how Jean or any other telepath is more or less vulnerable to suffering, and hell, fact that Clone Phoenix Jean became Dark Phoenix because she was mentally tortured for months can indicate her mind isn't that resistant to emotional pain, unless I'm missing something from the story, or something was added to telepathic powers since then.

Touché. I suppose we should be grateful that some progress has been made.

I guess so.

It's wonderful, actually. Frankly, she's the only reason I came back to comic books earlier this year. I was a big fan and collector some years back, but grew up and moved on. I still read comics and graphic novels here and there, but not like I used to, and certainly not anything X-Men-related. It was Dauterman's costumes portrait of Jean and deciding on a whim to read House of X and Powers of X that pulled me back in. So, I guess I should say it was a combination of Jean, Dauterman, and Hickman that lured me back to the world of mutants. Now, I'm basically sticking around to see what they do with Jean.

She's is a very important character to me; she always was. Seeing her back and possibly on the precipice of some major developments is exciting.

Well, hope you have fun with this, what I checked of Krakoa stuff has been hit and miss (Including Hickman's stuff post-HoX/PoX), so for now I'm not checking them out much.

lol. No, I don't mean it literally. I mean, I've had many metaphorical deaths that have entailed reinventing myself and starting anew. I've lived a wild life and have undergone my own "Dark Phoenix phase," as I like to call it - don't worry, no planets were decimated and no one but myself was harmed - so I relate to Jean in a lot of ways.

I see.

Anyway, you've been refreshing to chat with.

Thanks.

Thank you for being so engaging!

You're welcome, this conversation's fun.

During that story arc with the the D'bari, Jean did make a distinction between the two, but she still acknowledged the culpability her soul-essence played during that event. It wouldn't make sense for her personally to whitewash that genocide while allowing herself to take on the codename Phoenix.


Jean: The D'Bari came to Earth to slay the murderer of his world. That's Dark Phoenix. On the psychic plane, he did just that. He got his closure, he expiated his grief and found a way to make peace with his past. The monster is no more. I'm just a woman who happens to look like her. Thing is, like it or not, on some level, that monster was me. I summoned the Phoenix, I allowed our souls to merge. I didn't want to die. But more, I didn't want the X-Men to die. I didn't want Scott to die. I set events in motion. From that perspective, doesn't that make me responsible?"

How very Spider-Man of her .

[Havok83]

Probably, but still must be a mess, on top of Phoenix Clone and Madelyne.

Can only wonder how the O5 handle this, 'cause it can get messy, like, imagine Cyclops, a desperate leader doing everything he can to save mutants, and relatively at the same time thinking of himself as mutant Hitler lol.

.

well that played out in UXM v5 when he returned with the knowledge of his teen self which was the context for why he was the way he was