Is Jean Grey responsible for the actions taken by the two clones made of her?

[Starchilde]

Also, Madelyne was a clone made by Sinister, while JeanPhoenix was an exact duplicate of Jean that was born from the Phoenix, something that Jean has experienced more than one time in her life. I think those differences are compelling, it's like, the Laura Kinney who died at the Vault is the same Laura Kinney we see today (who has a new duplicated body) but without an specific part of her memories, but no one can say that she and Gabby are the same and that Gabby's experiences are Laura's right? I think the same can be applied to Jean, PhoenixJean and Madelyne. This is just my approximation tho, as I said this story is convulted lol. But I personally consider the events of the Phoenix saga, Jean's; and Maddy a separate person, who owns her separate history.

[Mercury]

If we are going by canon, history of the mu book makes it clear phoenix jean was not a clone but rather an exact duplicate so phoenix jean is closer to what we have in the current run with mutants coming back. Maddie on the other hand was a clone who had a flash of Jean memory when her friend died but didn't have any of Jean other members so i would say while a strong case could be made for Jean being responsible for what her duplicate did i would say no to both.

Canon is what has been established in the comic books. As far as I know, there has been no retcon of what was revealed during the original Inferno storyline, the climactic moments of which I have included in the op of this thread. The Phoenix Force did create "an exact duplicate" of Jean's body, but, as stated in the pages in the op, it only took a fragment of Jean's psyche. When the Phoenix clone killed herself - in large part, it was compelled to do so by the fragment of Jean's psyche - the Phoenix Force imbued Madelyne Pryor's lifeless body - another duplicate of Jean's body - with that same exact fragment, which Jean rejected while in the cocoon at the bottom of Jamaica Bay.

When Jean was discovered by the Avengers and Fantastic Four and finally emerged from the cocoon, she was still missing this fragment of her psyche. However, despite this, she was still able to function and carry on as relatively "normal." This fragment was only returned to her during her climactic fight with Madelyne, after which she also absorbed the memories of both clones, i.e., Phoenix/Dark Phoenix and Madelyne Pryor. Their experiences and memories were so intertwined with this fragment of her psyche, Jean would go on to sporadically exhibit their personalities, which were "triggered" during particularly stressful situations. She was later freed from these invasions of their personalities but retained their memories.

Since both clones were connected to Jean by this specific fragment of her psyche, logic says if you blame her for the actions of one, you have to blame her for the actions of the other.

[Mercury]

NOTE: I find it fascinating to read how people find ways of justifying Jean being "more Phoenix than Madelyne," especially when both clones were born solely from Jean's genetics and the same singular fragment of her psyche.

[Starchilde]

I thought Jean lost most of the Maddie stuff in the space arc during X-Factor. The one where Ship gets called by the Celestials to a planet where everyone has powers and are part of three warring factions. When the Celestial leave at the end they take Maddie's and Phoenix's personalities with them, but I can't say anything about the memories.

Yes me neither, I was having this same conversation the other day with a friend and we didn't really know about the memories. No one can doubt about Jean's memories of the first Phoenix, but I don't know if she still has some Madelyne's memories stored somewhere. I can't remember if it has been mentioned recently, although it's a thing that can be easily solved if addressed in panel.

[jwatson]

NOTE: I find it fascinating to read how people find ways of justifying Jean being "more Phoenix than Madelyne," especially when both clones were born solely from Jean's genetics and the same singular fragment of her psyche.

History of the marvel universe was pimped as canon of the entire marvel universe chronologically so it is what it is. Personally don't have a dog in the race but not a fan of posts that feel like they are trying to steer people to their conclusion. I just answered the question.

[Mercury]

History of the marvel universe was pimped as canon of the entire marvel universe chronologically so it is what it is. Personally don't have a dog in the race but not a fan of posts that feel like they are trying to steer people to their conclusion. I just answered the question.

I will have to see where History of the Marvel Universe "was pimped as canon" and read for myself what it has to say about Jean and the Phoenix. Also, please don't take offense to my comment. I truly do find people's reactions and answers to this question fascinating. Furthermore, I'm not "trying to steer people to their conclusion" as much as point to what has been established as canon in the comic books.

[Mercury]

P.S. To everyone: If there has been as succinct an explanation as the one given during the climax of Inferno regarding the Phoenix and Madelyne clones and Jean's relationship to them, please share. It is possible I may have overlooked it.

[Starchilde]

NOTE: I find it fascinating to read how people find ways of justifying Jean being "more Phoenix than Madelyne," especially when both clones were born solely from Jean's genetics and the same singular fragment of her psyche.

It's just that, I find it weird to consider Madelyne just a fragment of Jean, cause Madelyne was very different from Jean, even when she was born from the same essence. At first she didn't even had psychic powers. JeanPhoenix (after the retcon ofc) was exactly Jean, memories, personality and all, but with her powers enhanced, one can say. You aren't wrong either, I don't think there's a perfect response to this question.

[jwatson]

I will have to see where History of the Marvel Universe "was pimped as canon" and read for myself what it has to say about Jean and the Phoenix. Also, please don't take offense to my comment. I truly do find people's reactions and answers to this question fascinating. Furthermore, I'm not "trying to steer people to their conclusion" as much as point to what has been established as canon in the comic books.

Even if we take history of the mu out if we go by what we have now the fact that Phoenix Jean had Jean memories up until the second she died she would be more of the original jean than the current jean who lost some memories when she was reincarnated so by your implication if PhoenixJean is a clone then current jean is a clone as said previously in the post. Personally i don't see why it matters. If her name wasn't maddie and she got all jean memories would she be Jean? What stops Jean from being Maddie since she has her memories. Or one could say when the clone who had all jean memories went on and lived her life did the other two become clones of the original phoenix because she was the one who lived a continuous life be it corrupted or not. It could go on and on and on.

[Mercury]

It's just that, I find it weird to consider Madelyne just a fragment of Jean, cause Madelyne was very different from Jean, even when she was born from the same essence. At first she didn't even had psychic powers. JeanPhoenix (after the retcon ofc) was exactly Jean, memories, personality and all, but with her powers enhanced, one can say. You aren't wrong either, I don't think there's a perfect response to this question.

Well, of course Madelyne didn't behave like Jean. Sinister mind-controlled and created an identity for her. For all we know, had Sinister not tampered with her psyche, Madelyne may have risen believing she was Jean.

[Mercury]

Even if we take history of the mu out if we go by what we have now the fact that Phoenix Jean had Jean memories up until the second she died she would be more of the original jean that the current jean who lost some memories when she was reincarnated so by your implication if PhoenixJean is a clone than current jean is a clone as said previously in the post. Personally i don't see why it matters.

I already explained the difference. Jean's current cloned body houses her entire psyche; however, both clones of her only housed a fragment of her psyche.

[jwatson]

I already explained the difference. Jean's current cloned body houses her entire psyche; however, both clones of her only housed a fragment of her psyche.

The phoenix housed jean's entire psyche as well but Jean doesn't have all the memories of the phoenix she has a shared experience through the eyes of the phoenix so it could just be as easily said Phoenix is the real jean and current Jean is a clone of her. So should phoenix jean be brought back and this jean not. After all this jean denied having all of the original Jean thereby this jean is incomplete.

[OmegaStorm87]

I thought it was a known fact that Saint Jean is never responsible for any of her questionable actions, including having a very public emotional affair with another man right in front of her husband for years.

[Gray Lensman]

I thought it was a known fact that Saint Jean is never responsible for any of her questionable actions, including having a very public emotional affair with another man right in front of her husband for years.

Don't bring that crap on here, I'd rather not have another thread devolve into "Why I hate Scott Summers, the worst person ever" (or any similar feelings anyone might have about Jean) when he has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[Mercury]

The phoenix housed jean's entire psyche as well but Jean doesn't have all the memories of the phoenix she has a shared experience through the eyes of the phoenix so it could just be as easily said Phoenix is the real jean and current Jean is a clone of her. So should phoenix jean be brought back and this jean not. After all this jean denied having all of the original Jean thereby this jean is incomplete.

Again, the Phoenix Force housed a "fragment" of her "psyche" or "essence." Mind you, these are not my word choices but what the various comic books say, including on the pages from Inferno I posted in the op. Furthermore, the Phoenix Force, as has also been repeatedly established, preserved Jean's real body and the majority of her psyche in a cocoon it placed at the bottom of Jamaica Bay.