Why doesn't some like Doomsday Clock?

[Mr_E_88]

Hi guys

Doomsday Clock is one of my favorite stories from DC Comics, the dialogue was great, the art was amazing, it brought back the pre-New 52 continuity, and it was praised by critics.

But having mentioned the book a few times in this forum, I noticed that some of the guys here didn't like it.

Why?

Is there a reason or is it just a matter of taste?

And are you from the camp who liked it or from the camp who didn't?

[LAWtoyoto 432]

Hi guys

Doomsday Clock is one of my favorite stories from DC Comics, the dialogue was great, the art was amazing, it brought back the pre-New 52 continuity, and it was praised by critics.

But having mentioned the book a few times in this forum, I noticed that some of the guys here didn't like it.

Why?

Is there a reason or is it just a matter of taste?

And are you from the camp who liked it or from the camp who didn't?

Because this book is no longer canon thank to mismanagement higher up. Until now when can we have a new 'JSA' run?

The whole point of this book is a waste of money except explain how Dr Manhattan try to fix the actual timelines. And why Superman is important in this universe.

[John Venus]

-Constant delays.

-The shaky ethics of incorporating the Watchmen into the DCU and meta textually trying to blame them for Didio/Johns mismanagement of the DCU.

-Yet another big event meant to reboot and re-write DCU history. Enough. We just want good stories and the best version of our favorite characters. I don't care how GA Green Arrow squares with the modern day Green Arrow.

-This happening around the same time as Death Metal and 5G made my head spin and I ended up ignoring most of it until the dust settled.

[Restingvoice]

On the question of canon, Doomsday Clock did happen at some point in time, Dr. Manhattan did fix the timeline, but when Batman Who Laughs attack Hypertime during Metal and Flash Forward, the timeline gets messed up. The result is all of the alternate timelines and the events that happened in them all happened at the same time. It wasn't until Metal was over that Hypertime is fixed and the alternate timelines became separate again.

That's their explanation anyway.

As for Doomsday Clock itself, when I was reading it, I'm just not interested in everyone involved. Mainly because this story is for those who like classic characters and I'm new so the emotional investment just wasn't there. The messy timeline doesn't help.

I'm only interested in the last few pages when Dr. Manhattan explains the state of DCU from then on.

[king of hybrids]

I didn’t mind it at the time but in hindsight:

1) the fact that Watchmen shouldn’t be DC’s to monkey around with. If they want to screw with Moore so bad the Twilight pitch is sitting in their vaults
2) there was no need to ever do a sequel (and the tv show did it better anyway)
3) definitely no reason to do a crossover with DC
4) the plot clearly changed as the delays increased
5) ultimately pointless
6) everything about Johns since 2017 taints it by association

[Jekyll]

1. My personal opinion, but I find Watchmen to be incredibly overrated. I would prefer it not to mix in with the DCU.
2. The constant delays made me lose complete interest.
3. By the time it actually finished DC's horrible management made it completely useless and it didn't accomplish a thing.
4. Did it really bring The JSA back? Not really.

[skyvolt2000]

Disclosure-I got the series via 25 cent bin sale at my store around the time issue 8 or 9 was out.

1) Delays that held up way too many books

2) The series pretty much removed Jason Rusch from ever being Firestorm

3) Still waiting on JSA to really show up beyond cameos.

4) If that was not Johns-any other writer would have been ripped a new one for the delays. Yet all I heard was you can't rush quality. Let John Riley or Tyninion or Nick Spencer, Vita, G Willow Wilson, Steve Orlando or Gene Yung pull stunt like that. Rushing Quality will NEVER be mentioned.

[lemonpeace]

[Mr_E_88]

OK, I read all of the comments and this is my counterargument:

Yes, at the end of the day whatever Doomsday Clock did was useless due to DC launching Death Metal. But its main purpose was to fix what the New 52 did, which some fans didn't like, and it did just that. But as soon as Death Metal started everything was all over the place before being put back again. Add to that that Doomsday Clock predicted 5G, a movement that is still happening.

As for Watchmen being brought into the DC universe, that was the whole selling point and DC didn't do anything bad with it. Dr. Manhattan was treated as a big threat, as he wiped out most of the DC universe and all the other characters were meaningful.

And I agree there were some changes in the plot and the delays were problematic, and Watchmen was perfect and didn't need a sequel, but IMO the result was a great story with great dialogue.

And while DC didn't do anything with the JLA, at least there available when or if they want to use them.

As for some not being invested, then that is a matter of opinion.

[SJNeal]

Doomsday Clock is indirectly responsible for us being stuck with Bendis' LoSh, and it's directly responsible for us still not having a JSA book.

But yes, it's pretty to look at and a good read on its own.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Yes, at the end of the day whatever Doomsday Clock did was useless due to DC launching Death Metal. But its main purpose was to fix what the New 52 did, which some fans didn't like, and it did just that. . .

I thought DC Universe: Rebirth was suppose to have brought back some of the pre-Flashpoint continuity and "fix" what was done in the New52?

[Mr_E_88]

I thought DC Universe: Rebirth was suppose to have brought back some of the pre-Flashpoint continuity and "fix" what was done in the New52?

Yes, Doomsday Clock was the original endgame of Rebirth. It ended what the New 52 started and brought back the past continuity.

But when DC decided to launch Death Metal it made Doomsday Clock, and maybe even Rebirth, pointless since it was another attempt to fix what they did with the New 52.

[MajorHoy]

Yes, Doomsday Clock was the original endgame of Rebirth. It ended what the New 52 started and brought back the past continuity.

* DC Universe: Rebirth #1 = May 25 2016
* Doomsday Clock #1 = Nov 22 2017
* Doomsday Clock #12 = Dec 18 2019

There was about a one-and-a-half-year gap between DC Universe: Rebirth #1 and Doomsday Clock #1. We already had many parts of DC's pre-Flashpoint continuity back in play prior to the 1st issue of Doomsday Clock, so just how important was Doomsday Clock towards bringing back past continuity?

[lemonpeace]

I'm gonna try to keep it simple so I don't rant. i don't like Doomsday Clock because it was an overhyped vanity project by johns where he spins his wheels for 11 issues doing a toothless Moore impression until he ultimately arrives at an ending where he: 1. bastardizes another writers work so he can make some of the weakest, and most unnecessary, intertextual/metatextual statements I've seen in my life and 2) retroactively makes the entire series have even less weight and feel extra pointless. now mind you, I don't even care about Watchmen a ton, truthfully I've never fully read the actual comic because it wasn't grabbing my attention when I tried, but i can appreciate that there was a lot more thought and creativity going into it that johns strived for but never captures. on top of that it was supposed to "fix" the N52 but it didn't, it never needed to and it was never going to.

it's more or less written competently but it's plotting was garbage, it's narrative flow was garbage, and the way it utilized it's characters was garbage (Reggie Long had zero purpose, Superman was hollow, and Manhattan was impressively stupid); and the metaverse is powerfully dumb and redundant. it wasn't for the fact that Gary Frank is a goddamn mythical creature with the art and johns has so much clout from his prime, people would not have sucked it off the way they did critically. all it did was cater to the very specific wants of a very specific segment of an already niche readership. it was more concerned with being an "important story" than a good one, so it ultimately ended up a well-made turd.

[married guy]

DC didn't play fair with it's readers and the series was ultimately an enormous waste of money and time leaving a shitty taste in the mouth.
It was SUPER hyped as the be-all end-all of DC at the time, promising everything and ultimately delivering nothing.
Something that was intended to be the centrepiece ended up shoved into the far corner of the table.