Why doesn't some like Doomsday Clock?

[Jely4me]

Wanted to like it, being Johns and Gary Frank, but ultimately I could not get past issue 3. I am no longer as invested in DC and have not been for a few years now, being honest. Therefore that made it easy to dump the book, besides the delays. I don’t care who is editorial anymore, and have zero interest or faith in these directions, be it inclusivity or whatever PC agenda is being tossed at the remaining readers. Marvel rides the same rail. I’m always going to be a comics fan, but I’m after some quality in justifying spending my $$$. DC needs to stop with these continuity patches, reboots and fixes and just get back to telling good stories. I still give a book 6-12 issues to keep my interest, just not much reason for doing that these days, and I recognize that. Oh well.

[Mr_E_88]

I'm gonna try to keep it simple so I don't rant. i don't like Doomsday Clock because it was an overhyped vanity project by johns where he spins his wheels for 11 issues doing a toothless Moore impression until he ultimately arrives at an ending where he: 1. bastardizes another writers work so he can make some of the weakest, and most unnecessary, intertextual/metatextual statements I've seen in my life and 2) retroactively makes the entire series have even less weight and feel extra pointless. now mind you, I don't even care about Watchmen a ton, truthfully I've never fully read the actual comic because it wasn't grabbing my attention when I tried, but i can appreciate that there was a lot more thought and creativity going into it that johns strived for but never captures. on top of that it was supposed to "fix" the N52 but it didn't, it never needed to and it was never going to.

it's more or less written competently but it's plotting was garbage, it's narrative flow was garbage, and the way it utilized it's characters was garbage (Reggie Long had zero purpose, Superman was hollow, and Manhattan was impressively stupid); and the metaverse is powerfully dumb and redundant. it wasn't for the fact that Gary Frank is a goddamn mythical creature with the art and johns has so much clout from his prime, people would not have sucked it off the way they did critically. all it did was cater to the very specific wants of a very specific segment of an already niche readership. it was more concerned with being an "important story" than a good one, so it ultimately ended up a well-made turd.

I completely disagree with you here my friend.

First of all, how did it bastardize Watchmen?
All of the characters were used nicely, with the exception of the couple's child that one I admit didn’t make much sense. But Manhattan, the Comedian, and the others were used nicely.
Not to mention they kept the original Rorschach dead and didn't bring him back. The new one is great, he had an interesting backstory and was effective in the plot.

As for it being Retroactive, well yes....it did bring back classic characters what could you expect?

As for your thoughts about the plot, and characters, you have to remember that what Manhattan did was something he would totally do, he would experiment with whatever he finds interesting. He entered a world where Superheros were everywhere, something his original home didn't have. And he was a desperate man after what happened in Watchmen. The plot definitely did change at some point so you are right about that, but the narrative and dialogue was great.

All in all, while I agree with some of the points you made, I disagree with your opinion.

I hope your not upset about that

[Mr_E_88]

* DC Universe: Rebirth #1 = May 25 2016
* Doomsday Clock #1 = Nov 22 2017
* Doomsday Clock #12 = Dec 18 2019

There was about a one-and-a-half-year gap between DC Universe: Rebirth #1 and Doomsday Clock #1. We already had many parts of DC's pre-Flashpoint continuity back in play prior to the 1st issue of Doomsday Clock, so just how important was Doomsday Clock towards bringing back past continuity?

You are correct, but as I said, Doomsday Clock was supposed to be the end of Rebirth. DC started to merge the Pre New 52 continuity in Superman Reborn. It was supposed to establish the new status quo for the DC universe going forward. And while some things reminded like 5G, most of the plans were changed with Death Metal.

[Timothy Hunter]

You can't write a sequel to Watchmen without Alan Moore. Any writer trying to do their best Alan Moore impression won't do it.

But Gary Frank was perfectly chosen for the assignment. If you has to get an artist to draw a Watchmen sequel and you couldn't get Dave Gibbons, he would be the guy to do it.

[HandofPrometheus]

I was expecting the LoS to be significant but Saturn Girl ends up doing nothing and then Bendis' horrendous version of the team pops up. I don't care what anyone says John's was definitely setting things up for the Legion but things were dumped.

The only thing I liked was all the heroes going to Mars to confront Dr. M and Earth-1985 getting made.

Also this was supposed to be the sequel to Rebirth and continue the whole mystery of the New 52 continuity and what not but didn't deliver at all. Instead the overconvuluted Death Metal did instead.

[kingaliencracker]

The delays, coupled with the editorial shift away from REBIRTH, completely derailed it IMO. Even a terrible Johns book is usually pretty entertaining so it wasn't without its value in that regard. But by the time it rolled out DC was in a totally different initiative.

Honestly not sure why DC even bothered, although it did sell very well. It just didn't do anything for it's brand.

[Mr_E_88]

You can't write a sequel to Watchmen without Alan Moore. Any writer trying to do their best Alan Moore impression won't do it.

But Gary Frank was perfectly chosen for the assignment. If you has to get an artist to draw a WatchDmen sequel and you couldn't get Dave Gibbons, he would be the guy to do it.

Do you think that Allan More would work for DC after all those years?

Yeah. it would have been great to have him work with them in some capacity but after all those years of bad blood Moore wouldn't do that.

[Mr_E_88]

I was expecting the LoS to be significant but Saturn Girl ends up doing nothing and then Bendis' horrendous version of the team pops up. I don't care what anyone says John's was definitely setting things up for the Legion but things were dumped.

The only thing I liked was all the heroes going to Mars to confront Dr. M and Earth-1985 getting made.

Also this was supposed to be the sequel to Rebirth and continue the whole mystery of the New 52 continuity and what not but didn't deliver at all. Instead the overconvuluted Death Metal did instead.

They definitely had plans for the JSA and LOS, but all of this changed once Death Metal was launched.

While it did do some good, Death Metal biggest flaw was it made some of what happened in Doomsday Clock meaningless.

[kingaliencracker]

Do you think that Allan More would work for DC after all those years?

Yeah. it would have been great to have him work with them in some capacity but after all those years of bad blood Moore wouldn't do that.

Moore claims DC offered him the rights to the original Watchmen story if he would come back and write Before Watchmen, but Moore still refused.

[Mr_E_88]

The delays, coupled with the editorial shift away from REBIRTH, completely derailed it IMO. Even a terrible Johns book is usually pretty entertaining so it wasn't without its value in that regard. But by the time it rolled out DC was in a totally different initiative.

Honestly not sure why DC even bothered, although it did sell very well. It just didn't do anything for it's brand.

Ultimately yes, DC decided to ditch it in favor of Death Metal. But I still believe its a great story on its own.

[Mr_E_88]

Moore claims DC offered him the rights to the original Watchmen story if he would come back and write Before Watchmen, but Moore still refused.

Proves my point.

He did say in a number of interviews that he doesn’t want to work for DC or Marvel and prefers the independent puplishers.

[exile001]

Basically everything lemonpeace said.

I'll add that I don't think Geoff Johns is a very good writer anymore and this highlighted everything I dislike about his work in the six issues I read before dropping it and skimming the rest in my LCS.

Long drawn out nothing scenes with implied meaning but no actual depth. Unpleasant status quo/character changes with no rhyme or reason (remember when DC promised the books would catch up to Doomsday Clock? Lol!). Characters acting the way the story needs rather than in line with their established character. Characters knowing things the story needs them to know without explanation. Heroes losing/being ineffectual. Heroes being thin-skinned and ready to spat with each other. The public turning on heroes out of nowhere. Writing that is both spiteful to the characters and, frankly, those who follow them. Any scene with Batman.

It's Geoff Johns, so obviously there's pet characters that take up waaaay too much page space while adding very little. Also, the pure amount of time spent without mainline DC characters instead following the original characters he's interested in while allegedly writing a mainline DC universe book.

The fact that the whole thing is aping the work and style of a much, MUCH better writer and comic without even the basic understanding of why Watchmen is considered the classic it is. He copied the format and lifted the characters but didn't get anything else. There was no attempt made to combine the two comic book styles (Watchmen and a standard DC comic), he just shoved a handful of DC characters into his Watchmen fanfic.

Also, I understand that Gary Frank is a technically fantastic artist but I find his work is lifeless and dull. I'm glad he toned down drawing Superman as Christopher Reeve, which I found creepy.

If you liked it, that's cool. This was never going to be everybody's cup of tea.

I consider Doomsday Clock to be a bad comic by a weak writer and it ultimately being meaningless (cut from continuity) would be a good thing if I cared about continuity. Which I don't.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I loved what Doomsday Clock initially promised, bringing back the original LSH, bringing back the Johns version of the JSA back to continuity but coup d'etat causing delays changed what it delivered. If left alone Johns might have delivered my favorite thing produced by DC since the Sinestro Corps War but that time has passed. For me it seems that Snyder and Bendis wanting to ward off the 2nd Johns era said give us the ball and they promptly fumbled it.

[MajorHoy]

They definitely had plans for the JSA and LOS, but all of this changed once Death Metal was launched.

While it did do some good, Death Metal biggest flaw was it made some of what happened in Doomsday Clock meaningless.

The biggest flaw was that DC went ahead and launched Doomsday Cluck in the first place without having Geoff Johns focusing solely on getting it done in a timely manner.
If they couldn't get that commitment upfront, they shouldn't have even published the first issue. Instead, it became a convoluted, bloated mess filled with pretty images that turned out to be just a whimper rather than a defining comic book.

[Timothy Hunter]

Do you think that Allan More would work for DC after all those years?

Yeah. it would have been great to have him work with them in some capacity but after all those years of bad blood Moore wouldn't do that.

If it can't be done, don't do it. Any sequel to Watchmen cheapens the impact of the original.