Kindred's arc - Deep Analysis

[Ursalink]

You have no idea how much troubles I had to return here. Something has been stopping me from accessing this site for two weeks at least. Well, let's talk about the matter.

The Kindred's story is finally over and most of the questions have been finally answered. However, there are a few questions unsolved a new mysteries incomming. Let's see:

1º) Dr Curt Connors must be watched closely from now on. He was separated from the Lizard by the same device that allowed Peter Parker and Spider-Man to exist independently. However, the separation ended up putting their lives at risk if they didn't merge back together. So, if the Lizard and Connors are still living as two individuals, doesn't mean their lives will eventually be at risk too? We have to see this again in the future.

2º) Just like at the end of Spider-Geddon, they left Morlun as an unsolved plot here. If there's one villain that should have died in the Sinister War, that should be him. Morlun is still at large, so the question here is... When will he return again?

3º) Doctor Strange knows about OMD, and even if he's going to die soon, I hope he will eventually return to help undo OMD. Anyway, I was thinking the whole mess was around Peter's soul, and it turns out it was about Harry's soul. Well, in the end, Harry died, but his soul was released. But if he was cloned once, who says he won't be cloned again?

4º) Well, Norman Osborn was left sobbing for Harry's death, so we can assume he will leave Peter alone for a time; but there's something still worrying me. You see, we saw Mr Negative and Martin Li existing independently of each other, until they merged back together. However, Norman is still purified, which means the Green Goblin must be out there, somewhere. Why didn't it try to return with Norman? Maybe Mephisto knows about it and it didn't bother him to lose this round. Maybe he's keeping the Green Goblin hidden, until he needs it for something. That is something we definitely should be worrying about.

5º) Happy to see the whole mess of "Sins of the Past" was solved, and ironically, in a way I was thinking from the beginning: Clones created with Jackal's technology. There are a few mysteries here, however. First of all, I thought Sarah and Gabriel's DNA were stabilized in the past (Sarah with Peter's blood, and Gabriel with the Goblin Serum); so why were they dying again with the Accelerated Aging? Were these Kindred actually two other Gabriel and Sarah? Second, I don't understand how Mephisto took control of them, when technically they didn't do anything to be sent to Hell in the first place. And their hatred for Peter has absolutely no fundament. I mean, Peter was just as much as a victim as they were, thanks to the manipulations of the AI Norman/Harry. They truly expected Peter would take their place in Hell if they killed him? What a pair of imbeciles! Third, since they were clones, there's a chance to make them actually Peter's "children", as it was originally planned. Fourth, it seems their powers came partially from Mephisto's power (magic/supernatural) and science (controlling worms like Ant-Man controls ants); but I don't understand why Mephisto didn't gave them all the power in the first place. Finally, we saw new versions of Sarah and Gabriel being developed in the lab, so I think we haven't seen the last of these two. Hope next time won't be a crazy story like this one.

6º) Well, the part about Mayday Parker called my attention the most. So it means Peter and MJ's offspring is the key for Mephisto's ultimate defeat. I like the sound of that! I always think Mayday (and later Annie) was really special because she had the best of both their parents, and that is a winning mix for any eventually. I pray this is an indication that the Spider-Marriage will be restored and Peter and MJ will officially have children in the main Earth-616. I really love Peter and MJ's kids, so I want them to be official.

Boy, I really needed to take this out of my mind!

[Lukmendes]

1º) Dr Curt Connors must be watched closely from now on. He was separated from the Lizard by the same device that allowed Peter Parker and Spider-Man to exist independently. However, the separation ended up putting their lives at risk if they didn't merge back together. So, if the Lizard and Connors are still living as two individuals, doesn't mean their lives will eventually be at risk too? We have to see this again in the future.

Connors says in ASM#69 that he made improvements on the Isotope genome accelerator:

https://i.imgur.com/kkhpFsA.png

That can mean the clone degeneration won't happen, or can take a lot longer to happen.

3º) Doctor Strange knows about OMD, and even if he's going to die soon, I hope he will eventually return to help undo OMD. Anyway, I was thinking the whole mess was around Peter's soul, and it turns out it was about Harry's soul. Well, in the end, Harry died, but his soul was released. But if he was cloned once, who says he won't be cloned again?

Well, if he gets cloned again he won't go to hell if he dies again at least.

4º) Well, Norman Osborn was left sobbing for Harry's death, so we can assume he will leave Peter alone for a time; but there's something still worrying me. You see, we saw Mr Negative and Martin Li existing independently of each other, until they merged back together. However, Norman is still purified, which means the Green Goblin must be out there, somewhere. Why didn't it try to return with Norman? Maybe Mephisto knows about it and it didn't bother him to lose this round. Maybe he's keeping the Green Goblin hidden, until he needs it for something. That is something we definitely should be worrying about.

Mr. Negative wasn't exactly existing without Martin, his sins were flying around and still had the power to brainwash people, but the sins had no body of their own.

But good point about Norman, Spencer never did clear up what happened to his sins, all we know is that Kindred didn't give them back to Norman, so it's unlikely they're flying around like Mr. Negative's at least.

5º) Happy to see the whole mess of "Sins of the Past" was solved, and ironically, in a way I was thinking from the beginning: Clones created with Jackal's technology. There are a few mysteries here, however. First of all, I thought Sarah and Gabriel's DNA were stabilized in the past (Sarah with Peter's blood, and Gabriel with the Goblin Serum); so why were they dying again with the Accelerated Aging? Were these Kindred actually two other Gabriel and Sarah?

Considering Mephisto talks like they're the same ones, it seems they died again.

How is anyone's guess, since, like you pointed out, accelerated aging should be gone lol.

Second, I don't understand how Mephisto took control of them, when technically they didn't do anything to be sent to Hell in the first place. And their hatred for Peter has absolutely no fundament. I mean, Peter was just as much as a victim as they were, thanks to the manipulations of the AI Norman/Harry. They truly expected Peter would take their place in Hell if they killed him? What a pair of imbeciles!

For the most part their bodies were being controlled by AI Harry/Mephisto, so what they wanted mattered little, only at the very end they took control again somehow, and Sarah forgot about her development in Sins Past for some reason lol.

It's possible they're just another batch who's just programmed to hate Spidey, so they have no memories of Sins Past, but, who knows lol.

Also for why they're in hell, maybe because Harry's AI/Mephisto raised them, there was just no other place for them to go? Who knows...

Third, since they were clones, there's a chance to make them actually Peter's "children", as it was originally planned.

Possible, but I doubt Marvel's going for it.

Fourth, it seems their powers came partially from Mephisto's power (magic/supernatural) and science (controlling worms like Ant-Man controls ants); but I don't understand why Mephisto didn't gave them all the power in the first place.

Not sure the centipede control is the science based, Otto used Ant-Man's device to find their frequency and explode them, so basically a science solution to kill a bunch of centipedes lol.

Although they arbitrarily can't shape shift for some reason, need a serum from Chameleon, so yeah, Mephisto was lazy and forgot to give 'em everything lol.

Finally, we saw new versions of Sarah and Gabriel being developed in the lab, so I think we haven't seen the last of these two. Hope next time won't be a crazy story like this one.

I would be surprised if they ever return lol.

6º) Well, the part about Mayday Parker called my attention the most. So it means Peter and MJ's offspring is the key for Mephisto's ultimate defeat. I like the sound of that! I always think Mayday (and later Annie) was really special because she had the best of both their parents, and that is a winning mix for any eventually. I pray this is an indication that the Spider-Marriage will be restored and Peter and MJ will officially have children in the main Earth-616. I really love Peter and MJ's kids, so I want them to be official.

Boy, I really needed to take this out of my mind!

As long as Marvel has the mentality that Spidey can't age too much, they won't let him have kids, I have my doubts the marriage's even returning lol.

[Mister Mets]

I don't know how much future writers will deal with plot points like Morlun, or whether the Lizard will need to be merged with Connors.

Typically, writers want to focus on their own stories. There's also the idea that a series should be accessible to new readers, rather than referring too heavily to earlier arcs.

Though I wonder if this can be a successful hook for a satellite book.

When there's a new creative team on Amazing Spider-Man, should there be another book dealing with the unresolved plot points fans complain about online? Matthew Rosenberg seems like a plausible writer just because he cowrote so much of Spencer's run. By its nature, the book wouldn't be very accessible but there may be built in interest in seeing what happens next from stories people bought in Amazing Spider-Man.

[HypnoHustler]

Congratulations. You have now given Kindred more thought than the entire Spider office.

[Ursalink]

As long as Marvel has the mentality that Spidey can't age too much, they won't let him have kids, I have my doubts the marriage's even returning lol.

I'm sick of saying this. For a young Spider-Man, we already have Miles Morales, so they have no longeran excuse to stop Peter Parker from aging. They want magically make Peter and Miles to have the same age? What's the point then of a "New Generation" of heroes like the Champions?

Congratulations. You have now given Kindred more thought than the entire Spider office.

After all the headaches I had trying to find sense to the crazyness about Kindred, this is what I get. Next time, the writers shouldn't be more careful when writing a story.

[Lukmendes]

I don't know how much future writers will deal with plot points like Morlun, or whether the Lizard will need to be merged with Connors.

Typically, writers want to focus on their own stories. There's also the idea that a series should be accessible to new readers, rather than referring too heavily to earlier arcs.

Though I wonder if this can be a successful hook for a satellite book.

When there's a new creative team on Amazing Spider-Man, should there be another book dealing with the unresolved plot points fans complain about online? Matthew Rosenberg seems like a plausible writer just because he cowrote so much of Spencer's run. By its nature, the book wouldn't be very accessible but there may be built in interest in seeing what happens next from stories people bought in Amazing Spider-Man.

That could work if the stories have more substance than just filling those plot holes I guess.

I'm sick of saying this. For a young Spider-Man, we already have Miles Morales, so they have no longeran excuse to stop Peter Parker from aging. They want magically make Peter and Miles to have the same age? What's the point then of a "New Generation" of heroes like the Champions?

Miles fills the role of a teenager Spider-Man, Marvel doesn't want Peter looking older than a mid 20's adult (, so marriage and specially children are out of the question as long as they think like this.

After all the headaches I had trying to find sense to the crazyness about Kindred, this is what I get. Next time, the writers shouldn't be more careful when writing a story.

Yeah, trying to make sense of a nonsensical story is like this lol.

[t-spider]

You know, if Kindred/s were to return for one more story arc down the road, I don't think I'd mind... on a few conditions. 1) Mephisto can use them for some reason, maybe promising to give them permanent life if they kill Peter... I dunno, I'm not a comic writer, so they go after him again. Whatever, this time, they are nowhere uber-powered, so more of a fair fight. 2) Peter scores and absolutely decisive victory over them and sends the twin idiots back to Hell. Non-Negotiable. The end.

[Spiderfan001]

You know, if Kindred/s were to return for one more story arc down the road, I don't think I'd mind... on a few conditions. 1) Mephisto can use them for some reason, maybe promising to give them permanent life if they kill Peter... I dunno, I'm not a comic writer, so they go after him again. Whatever, this time, they are nowhere uber-powered, so more of a fair fight. 2) Peter scores and absolutely decisive victory over them and sends the twin idiots back to Hell. Non-Negotiable. The end.

My version is more that the kids sacrifice themselves in the final fight against Mephisto.Not by defeating him ofc, that's Peter's/May's job but in a scenario like they have Mephisto on the rope but doing in him means the twins die.They have a small heartfelt convo and Peter does them in.Could work w/ May but IMO works w/ Peter much better,

[t-spider]

My version is more that the kids sacrifice themselves in the final fight against Mephisto.Not by defeating him ofc, that's Peter's/May's job but in a scenario like they have Mephisto on the rope but doing in him means the twins die.They have a small heartfelt convo and Peter does them in.Could work w/ May but IMO works w/ Peter much better,

That could could work... I'm just, after that mess that was Last Remains and Issue 74, in the mood of Peter giving those two morons a thrashing. Especially after whichever one of the two it was that killed and revived him repeatedly. Thrashing of Morons, fighting against Mephisto, sacrifice to stop him... works for me.

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

I still can't wait to see Peter try and explain all this to Liz when she wants to know why her husband is dead.

[Lukmendes]

That could could work... I'm just, after that mess that was Last Remains and Issue 74, in the mood of Peter giving those two morons a thrashing. Especially after whichever one of the two it was that killed and revived him repeatedly. Thrashing of Morons, fighting against Mephisto, sacrifice to stop him... works for me.

It's kinda not really relevant which body was used to kill Peter over and over again, since that was AI Harry/Mephisto controlling them anyways.

A headcanon I have right now is that, since ASM#74 is when Gabriel and Sarah finally took control of their own bodies back, they were much worse at fighting because they don't know how to use Kindred's powers as well as AI Harry/Mephisto.

And yes, it's a desperate attempt to explain that crap final issue lol.

I still can't wait to see Peter try and explain all this to Liz when she wants to know why her husband is dead.

"- See Liz, that Kindred wasn't really Harry to begin with, some other guy pretending to be Harry, and he kidnapped Harry to make sure he had us all fooled.

- So where's Harry?!

- Oh uh, he's dead."

Easy enough .

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

I wonder if some of this will be cleared up the next time Norman's around, no way in hell is he going to stay "good" for much longer.

[Ursalink]

I wonder if some of this will be cleared up the next time Norman's around, no way in hell is he going to stay "good" for much longer.

I don't know. Truth be told, a Green Goblin fully unleashed from any "mortal limit" imposed by Norman Osborne's identity could bring a whole new level of aadventure for Peter and Spider-Man. I don't expect Norman stay "good" for long, especially because of his long story as Spider-Man's nemesis. But the idea of a Green Goblin completely unleashed from Norman Osborn's "weaknesses" is too good to waste it.

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

I want Bad Norman back mostly because Good Norman is so desperately boring. Please, please put away this mopey self-pitying a-hole and bring back the murdering, manipulating, throwing-people-off-bridges a-hole.

[Ursalink]

I want Bad Norman back mostly because Good Norman is so desperately boring. Please, please put away this mopey self-pitying a-hole and bring back the murdering, manipulating, throwing-people-off-bridges a-hole.

We could still have this with a Green Goblin unleashed from Norman Osborn's influence.

Anyway, in original plans, they pretended to make Peter and Gwen the "parents" of Sarah and Gabriel. Since it has been revealed they are clones (as I always suspected), this could actually happen because they could make a new Sarah and a new Gabriel using Peter's DNA and combining it with Gwen's. Ben and Kaine seem to have surpassed the Age Degeneration problem, so they could be the key to create a stable Sarah and Gabriel.