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  1. #226
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    I’m thrilled for the many fans who will feel seen by this news and I welcome this kind of representation in the book. I saw someone say today that it’s hard to understand the impact of having the child of two cultural icons like Clark Kent and Lois Lane have an openly queer child and I hope the impact is felt and that it’s handled with the utmost care.

    That said, Tom Taylor’s interviews have been an absolute disaster today. Like just unreal disaster.

    First off, Tom referring to Clark as a “white savior” and then implying Jon is not one. For starters, “white savior” is a very specific term that refers to a white character that is specifically employed in a condescending way against minorities. It does not just refer to any male character who is white. And it’s a truly horrible misuse of the term for a character like Superman who was created by Jews and is an allegory for the Jewish diaspora. Finally, Jon is also white. He’s still white. So strike one, Tom. Embarrassing. In his attempt to seem racially progressive, he made a super racially insensitive comment because Jon Kent is still white even if he’s queer.

    Two, Taylor’s comments on Lois, in particular today, have been ragingly sexist and inappropriate.

    As someone on Twitter said tonight, you can fight back against the homophobia that Jon will undoubtedly experience without engaging in misogynist revision about his literal mother. You do not score points for being sexist here and a straight white creator trying to look good propping up a queer relationship by insulting the Female icon of the franchise is A bad look.

    Among other offenses, Taylor felt the need to imply that Lois wasn’t “proactive” in the Superman franchise (a bold faced revision and lie), that she was “mainly a damsel.” (She was created as a hard nosed reporter in 1938 and denigrating her history as a damsel is insulting AF) and then going on to basically say that the relationship with Jay would be more “equal” because Jay will develop superpowers soon.

    Look. It should not have to be explained here why it was completely inappropriate for Taylor to talk about Lois like this while trying to promote this. It is extremely toxic and disingenuous to imply as Taylor did that only physical similarities make people equal just as it’s extremely disingenuous to imply that it’s bad to be able to rely on a partner. Further, it’s homophobic to deny Jon/Jay the ability to lean on each other and/or rely on each other because it’s two men. Frankly, it would be more progressive to actually let Jon Save his male love interest rather than acting like that’s beneath them.
    Sexism and homophobia are linked in many ways and you don’t score points for one because you engage in the other. It’s actually not ok for him to take a giant dump all over Jon’s mother bc he’s trying to make Jay look great in comparison. That’s ugly. Lois Lane is an icon and she’s still a woman and these are men no matter their sexuality. That’s not ok. That’s not progressive and it’s ugly behavior coming from the guy who literally wrote Injustice.

    So I’m all in for Jon Kent and I pray DC treats him with the care he deserves. But Tom Taylor’s misguided comments today are a red flag and this is the reason we say it’s suspicious when white straight men try to lead “progressive” movements like this. So I appreciate what he’s doing, I’m here for Jon and I look forward to a bisexual creator taking the reins going forward.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 10-12-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I’m thrilled for the many fans who will feel seen by this news and I welcome this kind of representation in the book. I saw someone say today that it’s hard to understand the impact of having the child of two cultural icons like Clark Kent and Lois Lane have an openly queer child and I hope the impact is felt and that it’s handled with the utmost care.

    That said, Tom Taylor’s interviews have been an absolute disaster today. Like just unreal disaster.

    First off, Tom referring to Clark as a “white savior” and then implying Jon is not one. For starters, “white savior” is a very specific term that refers to a white character that is specifically employed in a condescending way against minorities. It does not just refer to any male character who is white. And it’s a truly horrible misuse of the term for a character like Superman who was created by Jews and is an allegory for the Jewish diaspora. Finally, Jon is also white. He’s still white. So strike one, Tom. Embarrassing. In his attempt to seem racially progressive, he made a super racially insensitive comment because Jon Kent is still white even if he’s queer.

    Two, Taylor’s comments on Lois, in particular today, have been ragingly sexist and inappropriate.

    As someone on Twitter said tonight, you can fight back against the homophobia that Jon will undoubtedly experience without engaging in misogynist revision about his literal mother. You do not score points for being sexist here and a straight white creator trying to look good propping up a queer relationship by insulting the Female icon of the franchise is A bad look.

    Among other offenses, Taylor felt the need to imply that Lois wasn’t “proactive” in the Superman franchise (a bold faced revision and lie), that she was “mainly a damsel.” (She was created as a hard nosed reporter in 1938 and denigrating her history as a damsel is insulting AF) and then going on to basically say that the relationship with Jay would be more “equal” because Jay will develop superpowers soon.

    Look. It should not have to be explained here why it was completely inappropriate for Taylor to talk about Lois like this while trying to promote this. It is extremely toxic and disingenuous to imply as Taylor did that only physical similarities make people equal just as it’s extremely disingenuous to imply that it’s bad to be able to rely on a partner. Further, it’s homophobic to deny Jon/Jay the ability to lean on each other and/or rely on each other because it’s two men. Frankly, it would be more progressive to actually let Jon Save his male love interest rather than acting like that’s beneath them.
    Sexism and homophobia are linked in many ways and you don’t score points for one because you engage in the other. It’s actually not ok for him to take a giant dump all over Jon’s mother bc he’s trying to make Jay look great in comparison. That’s ugly. Lois Lane is an icon and she’s still a woman and these are men no matter their sexuality. That’s not ok. That’s not progressive and it’s ugly behavior coming from the guy who literally wrote Injustice.

    So I’m all in for Jon Kent and I pray DC treats him with the care he deserves. But Tom Taylor’s misguided comments today are a red flag and this is the reason we say it’s suspicious when white straight men try to lead “progressive” movements like this. So I appreciate what he’s doing, I’m here for Jon and I look forward to a bisexual creator taking the reins going forward.
    I don't have words, "White savior" as if Jon wasn't White, this misogyny with Lois, I'm full of this shit
    Last edited by Betinayen; 10-12-2021 at 06:50 PM.

  3. #228
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    While I don't think that was Taylor's intent at all, I do wish he had just left Clark and Lois out of it as much as possible. This series so far has done a bad enough job of making me feel like Jon is really all that different from Clark without the author taking every opportunity possible to be like "No see, this is different and better because [blank]. He's doing all the things Clark can't do and his boyfriend does all the things Lois can't do! Look at how shiny and new they are!"

    I love Taylor. I really do. This is the guy who made me look at Jean Grey in a different light, after years of not liking her. I don't even hold Injustice against him because he had to work with Netherrealm studios' notoriously piss poor storytelling. But, man...he just has not been hitting the bullseye for me with this book. Meanwhile his Nightwing is the most fun I've had with that character in SUCH a long time.
    Last edited by Blue22; 10-12-2021 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #229
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Taylor has put his foot in it that's for sure. He's also lost me as a fan considering he is on the Lois misogyny train. Why can't you build up one group without tearing down other groups, especially female comic book characters who have historically had a very hard time overall.
    Last edited by Celgress; 10-12-2021 at 08:36 PM.
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  5. #230
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Tom Taylor is bisexual though.

  6. #231
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    Tom Taylor is bisexual though.
    Really? I never knew. He never holds himself out as one, though neither does James Tynion IV. Surprised he hasn't said something yet about Jon.
    Last edited by garazza; 10-12-2021 at 08:53 PM.

  7. #232
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    This is just another cash grab just like what Marvel does in the supposed name of "Diversity" and "Representation", nothing more or less.

  8. #233
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I mean, duh. Everything a company does is to boost sales. But that doesn't really make the added the diversity and representation a bad thing. Nor does it make a writer's intentions any less genuine. Either way, people who wanna feel represented in the media they consume feel represented. So there's really no losers in this scenario.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    Tom Taylor is bisexual though.
    Citation needed

  10. #235
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I’m thrilled for the many fans who will feel seen by this news and I welcome this kind of representation in the book. I saw someone say today that it’s hard to understand the impact of having the child of two cultural icons like Clark Kent and Lois Lane have an openly queer child and I hope the impact is felt and that it’s handled with the utmost care.

    That said, Tom Taylor’s interviews have been an absolute disaster today. Like just unreal disaster.

    First off, Tom referring to Clark as a “white savior” and then implying Jon is not one. For starters, “white savior” is a very specific term that refers to a white character that is specifically employed in a condescending way against minorities. It does not just refer to any male character who is white. And it’s a truly horrible misuse of the term for a character like Superman who was created by Jews and is an allegory for the Jewish diaspora. Finally, Jon is also white. He’s still white. So strike one, Tom. Embarrassing. In his attempt to seem racially progressive, he made a super racially insensitive comment because Jon Kent is still white even if he’s queer.

    Two, Taylor’s comments on Lois, in particular today, have been ragingly sexist and inappropriate.

    As someone on Twitter said tonight, you can fight back against the homophobia that Jon will undoubtedly experience without engaging in misogynist revision about his literal mother. You do not score points for being sexist here and a straight white creator trying to look good propping up a queer relationship by insulting the Female icon of the franchise is A bad look.

    Among other offenses, Taylor felt the need to imply that Lois wasn’t “proactive” in the Superman franchise (a bold faced revision and lie), that she was “mainly a damsel.” (She was created as a hard nosed reporter in 1938 and denigrating her history as a damsel is insulting AF) and then going on to basically say that the relationship with Jay would be more “equal” because Jay will develop superpowers soon.

    Look. It should not have to be explained here why it was completely inappropriate for Taylor to talk about Lois like this while trying to promote this. It is extremely toxic and disingenuous to imply as Taylor did that only physical similarities make people equal just as it’s extremely disingenuous to imply that it’s bad to be able to rely on a partner. Further, it’s homophobic to deny Jon/Jay the ability to lean on each other and/or rely on each other because it’s two men. Frankly, it would be more progressive to actually let Jon Save his male love interest rather than acting like that’s beneath them.
    Sexism and homophobia are linked in many ways and you don’t score points for one because you engage in the other. It’s actually not ok for him to take a giant dump all over Jon’s mother bc he’s trying to make Jay look great in comparison. That’s ugly. Lois Lane is an icon and she’s still a woman and these are men no matter their sexuality. That’s not ok. That’s not progressive and it’s ugly behavior coming from the guy who literally wrote Injustice.

    So I’m all in for Jon Kent and I pray DC treats him with the care he deserves. But Tom Taylor’s misguided comments today are a red flag and this is the reason we say it’s suspicious when white straight men try to lead “progressive” movements like this. So I appreciate what he’s doing, I’m here for Jon and I look forward to a bisexual creator taking the reins going forward.
    Wow. That is not a good light for Tom to be in. "White Savior" Clark? Misogynist remarks about Lois?
    Him continuing to have fake Jon was enough for me to avoid his stuff. With that, I want his stuff to fail.

    And no, I don't care if kid Jon is bisexual or not. And this goes beyond that. What a jerk.

  11. #236
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Are people not seeing it?clark is white.He does savior shtick.Granted,he isn't going around feeling "white man's burden" towards just other races.He is feeling obnoxious savior complex and "burden" of the whole of humanity.
    It can easily parallel
    the kryptonian saviors=whites
    Humanity=other races


    The character was created by jew.The character is handled by the company..Guess what the company has been doing?

    Savior superman suck!!!! Big time!!Clark and his paternalism is legendary...

    Anyways,that doesn't mean the character has no hope.They could easily change outlook with which superman is written.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-12-2021 at 11:21 PM.
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  12. #237
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I can't, in good conscience, vilify Taylor. Not for this, anyway. Not even while he's promoting a book that I dislike.

    I've followed the guy long enough to notice that, yes, he can be heavy-handed as hell and overzealous with his messages, to the point of saying or doing something incredibly stupid (I mean...just look at the "thought and prayers" bullets), but he does seem to mean well.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    First off, Tom referring to Clark as a ďwhite saviorĒ and then implying Jon is not one.
    Btw, just looking at the whole DCU and not just the Superman franchise, Jon was kind of the only new "non diverse" created in the last 5-10 years (apart from maybe some pretty obscure ones), is changing him into an LGBT character really something ground breaking that makes him stand out?


    Btw. when it comes to increasing sales, Batman Urban Legends #6 (the one with Tim Drake coming out) sold according to chomichron 43.000 issues, issue #5 sold 44.000 ...

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    This is just another cash grab just like what Marvel does in the supposed name of "Diversity" and "Representation", nothing more or less.
    I don’t think so, while his growth was sudden, this seems like a natural progression

  15. #240
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    When an author's ideology isn't in line with mine, I usually see if it shows or propagated in their work. Like for example, Taylor say that about Lois, but if the way he writes Lois matches with, Tomasi, Siegel, Jurgens and the like, then I don't have a problem with it. f he does write her just as a damsel, then I'll have a problem.

    People usually read and post online if writers do that, so I'll wait, since I haven't heard about this from people reading his works (not counting Injustice since that part of the plot is from the game).

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