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  1. #286
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I think it becomes implicit when the whole point of the text is "hey Superman is bi, and this is his new boyfriend".
    I'm sure it's possible, if not likely, that was his intention. Just the way it was presented (again likely by the way the interviewer structured the article) doesn't lend itself to that reading. See, now here I'm having trouble shutting off my lawyer brain and ascribing meaning to text not present in the actual language!

    It's certainly not like I don't agree with you.
    I didn't mean to imply that you did. I don't think Taylor would either. Guy probably was doing like 10 different interviews and made some clumsy analogies at like 3 am Australia time. I'm fully on board with this book and how he's handling Jon and all this.

  2. #287
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    You don't deserve a pass for saying these kinds of things about Lois Lane when you write a Superman book.

    We don't live in the 1950s anymore. Since at least the 1960s Lois Lane has been one of the most important
    characters not just in the Superman universe, but for DC. She has had her own comic, been a vibrant character
    in both comics and media for generations. Untold number of girls and boys have become journalists because
    of her.

    It reveals a deep, deep patriarchal misogny to make the kind of comments that Taylor made, but also ignorance
    about the Lois Lane character. Taylor knew exactly what he was saying. He revealed what he was all about.
    It raises questions about how well they know the DC Comics character to say these kinds of things. Go back to
    reread the Lois Lane comic, examine the way she has been a multifaceted character. It has been a long,
    long, long time since she was just a damsel character.
    Last edited by RobinGA; 10-13-2021 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Personally I don't like the things Taylor is saying about Superman or Lois to push his characters. It comes across as arrogant and revisionist history. He's been doing it with Clark, pretending he can possibly do something with Jon that Superman didn't do...when the character's entire foundation has helping the downtrodden, the discriminated again, the non-elite. Periods of really bad writing and bad management don't change that. And now he's doing it with Lois to push the new love interest. If you're passionate about these guys, fine, but don't ignore what Clark and Lois have done and meant in their near century history just because you want to make a mark. Lois was a damsel in distress plenty of times yes. But the periods in which she's not have overshadowed that, for some time. The Silver Age is an iconic time but it was also only 15 or so years. Her more "modern" portrayal is more than double that time. Hell even more than that if you want to throw the Bronze Age in there too. Because SA was so iconic, sure that may still be in the mainstream a little bit to this day. But how much is a pretty big question mark because in recent history there's been notable other media portrayals that they've been privy to where she very much is not the damsel in distress, fitting a modern age mold.

    I had said a while back that Taylor reminded me of Scott Snyder with his self hype machine presence. I think now he's surpassed that. Snyder just exaggerated. Taylor's moved onto straight dishonesty.
    This has been my issue since before SoKE #1 dropped. Jon's sexuality is a non starter for me. In fact I see it as a marketing ploy used in tandem with everything that's come before this reveal, DC trying to pretend Clark Kent is...was a subpar Superman who did nothing worthwhile in his 8 decades worth of history. This interview, intentional or not has reduced Lois' contribution back down to the misogynistic tropes she's fought so hard to escape. She is human and thus deemed not equal, ergo, not good enough. I love Jon (kid and teen) but I will not accept two of my favourite heroes being trodden upon to sell his character. Clark and Lois deserve better than what DC is pawning.

  4. #289
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I feel like even Silver Age Lois is underserved by being described as just a damsel in distress.

    Yeah she filled that function a lot. Yes the general terrible way women were written back then forced her into that role. She was many things, and many of them weren't positive (not her fault). But the Super mythos was so batshit crazy in those days and it included her, so she was almost never boring. Yeah Silver Age Lois was obsessed with trapping a man in marriage, but her methods usually involved robot duplicates, magic, time travel, body transformations and learning forbidden Kryptonian martial arts. Even at the absolute low point of her character history, she was pretty great. Not many comic book love interests, whether they have powers or not, can really come close to touching her in terms of standing out from the pack, both at her highs and at her lows.

  5. #290
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    I think you have to make a distinction between the early 1960s with what she looked like in the 1980s.

    She became a lot more complicated character over time. Her own comic also made a considerable difference.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
    I bet they will do it next to Warhammer 40k. All cool franchises must bend to the Cause no matter what.





    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    I can't help but be morbidly curious whether Dean Cain will throw a fit on social media or Fox news. lol
    Like clockwork he/they have. Worst Superman is complaining about pandering, as he misses the days when comics would pander to homophobes.
    Last edited by Venceremos; 10-13-2021 at 12:50 PM.

  7. #292
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    Superman was always political.
    His politics were always on the left.
    People who think he was some apolitical 1950s consensus figure
    have never read Golden Age comics.

    Yes, you can cherry pick instances where this wasn't true (1950s Superman, God)
    but environmentalism, social change, they have always been there.
    The notion that Superman has only started to talk about politics is a myth that needs to die.

    Now the question, as many have pointed out, as to whether or not in today's corporate
    culture the urban liberalism of Superman will be allowed to be discussed is a separate issue.

  8. #293
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    In the article he does mention it as a "historically" and how that has changed. This is how he's himself written her:



    So I don't think it's fair to him to lump him in with like a Frank Miller or others who explicitly think of Lois as "lesser than" Clark and don't bat an eye to write her out of the mythos entirely. It was a clumsy statement and he's said he doesn't view them that way and given the way he's gone out of his way to talk about her and include her in stories, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. He's quite literally one of the only people who even talk about Jon in the context of being her son.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    In the article he does mention it as a "historically" and how that has changed. This is how he's himself written her:



    So I don't think it's fair to him to lump him in with like a Frank Miller or others who explicitly think of Lois as "lesser than" Clark and don't bat an eye to write her out of the mythos entirely. It was a clumsy statement and he's said he doesn't view them that way and given the way he's gone out of his way to talk about her and include her in stories, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. He's quite literally one of the only people who even talk about Jon in the context of being her son.
    This, he even pointed out that how that has changed.

    While I cannot say what Taylor's mindset when talking in the interview but I would not be surprised if his phrasing was based on comments he saw online.

    Even before the reveal of Jon and Jay's sexuality, people were hating on Jay for having pink hair and being more of a fan of Lois than of Superman a few were already saying that he was going to be Jon's "Lois" in a derogatory manner, so I would not be surprised if his words were more of a reaction to that.

    I cannot believe that a writer who made Jay a Lois fanboy thinks of something as just a damsel in distress, which is not even what he said or lesser than Clark.
    Last edited by ZuLuLu; 10-13-2021 at 03:58 PM.

  10. #295
    Fantastic Member Writerblog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    In the article he does mention it as a "historically" and how that has changed. This is how he's himself written her:



    So I don't think it's fair to him to lump him in with like a Frank Miller or others who explicitly think of Lois as "lesser than" Clark and don't bat an eye to write her out of the mythos entirely. It was a clumsy statement and he's said he doesn't view them that way and given the way he's gone out of his way to talk about her and include her in stories, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. He's quite literally one of the only people who even talk about Jon in the context of being her son.
    I don't know, he wrote her very well every chance. But then he throw her under the bus to make his new shiny OC looks better.
    This really broke my thrust on him

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinGA View Post
    You don't deserve a pass for saying these kinds of things about Lois Lane when you write a Superman book.

    We don't live in the 1950s anymore. Since at least the 1960s Lois Lane has been one of the most important
    characters not just in the Superman universe, but for DC. She has had her own comic, been a vibrant character
    in both comics and media for generations. Untold number of girls and boys have become journalists because
    of her.

    It reveals a deep, deep patriarchal misogny to make the kind of comments that Taylor made, but also ignorance
    about the Lois Lane character. Taylor knew exactly what he was saying. He revealed what he was all about.
    It raises questions about how well they know the DC Comics character to say these kinds of things. Go back to
    reread the Lois Lane comic, examine the way she has been a multifaceted character. It has been a long,
    long, long time since she was just a damsel character.
    Maybe this is what he really thinks about Lois, sometimes people show what they really think on interviews. I hope not, hard to believe that his writing of Lois was fake just to score diversity points.
    He reduced Lois to a damsel in distress, while his OC will get powers so he won't be saved by Jon
    Last edited by Writerblog; 10-13-2021 at 05:04 PM.

  11. #296
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Lois has been for the Majority of her existence been a subversion of the damsel in distress troupe..The only time that wasn't the case is early silverage and the likes.But,i can see it leaving a lasting effect.And lois as love interest/romantic character was pretty standard stuff...With the triangle and things.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Lois has been for the Majority of her existence been a subversion of the damsel in distress troupe..The only time that wasn't the case is early silverage and the likes.But,i can see it leaving a lasting effect.And lois as love interest/romantic character was pretty standard stuff...With the triangle and things.

    Her most recent appearce in film still perpetuates that she is the anchor, the moral fiber, the tether of hope in Clarks eyes. It being common knowledge the best way to manipulate him is by endangering her in any way. You can thank mister snyder for that. also seen recently in Harley Quinn show, Batman Hush, and of course Injustice. Superman and Lois subverts this only becasue Clark sons become easier hostages.

    Marvel seems to be distancing away for this trope, thier new Spiderman has not been put in this situation with MJ. in fact none of the marvel leading men have had their female opposite taken hostage i believe.

  13. #298
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Pepper was taken hostage in Iron Man 3.

    Jane was sort of taken hostage by the Aether in Dark World, if you look at things from a certain point of view.

    Thanos kidnapped Gamora in Infinity War, and held Nebula as leverage. Had nothing to do with Quill so probably doesn't count though.

    But other than those I can't really think of any hostage situations. Yeah, that's a surprisingly low number of "damsel taken hostage" incidents.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    I can't help but be morbidly curious whether Dean Cain will throw a fit on social media or Fox news. lol
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...al-1235030248/

    He sort of does but later on he says he wants to see more stories.

    ďBrave would be having him fighting for the rights of gay people in Iran where theyíll throw you off a building for the offense of being gay,Ē Cain continued. ďTheyíre talking about having him fight climate change and the deportation of refugees, and heís dating a hacktivist ó whatever a hactivist is. Why donít they have him fight the injustices that created the refugees whose deportation heís protesting?
    That would be brave, Iíd read that. Or fighting for the rights of women to attend school and have the ability to work and live and boys not to be raped by men under the new warm and fuzzy Taliban ó that would be brave. Thereís real evil in this world today, real corruption and government overreach, plenty of things to fight against. Human trafficking ó real and actual slavery going on. Ö Itíd be great to tackle those issues.Ē
    I think he is trying to say make a bigger splash by addressing those issues instead of making someone LGBTQA+ and rarely addressing those issues.

    Like the recent issue of Icon and Rocket did.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Pepper was taken hostage in Iron Man 3.

    Jane was sort of taken hostage by the Aether in Dark World, if you look at things from a certain point of view.

    Thanos kidnapped Gamora in Infinity War, and held Nebula as leverage. Had nothing to do with Quill so probably doesn't count though.

    But other than those I can't really think of any hostage situations. Yeah, that's a surprisingly low number of "damsel taken hostage" incidents.
    Gamora and nebula were central to that story they were not part of some trope. Dark world is the worst MCU movie. So i guess thats 1 out of like 30 films

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