God I love Blackstars so much. For someone who loves Superman as much as Morrison does, their deconstructions of him (Superdoom, Blackstars) are brutal.
Clark as the worthless nostalgia figure who can’t make anything better only wax on about the “good old days”. Can’t even get out of the way either and let the next Gen take over. Definitely been interesting seeing some of the backlash, especially over a character who if you had asked those same people what they thought of him before all this, they likely would’ve said he was lame and boring compared to Batman. Part of why I really warmed up to the idea of Jon being bi is that it’s such a spit in the face of the cultural perception of Superman as this conservative figure. Don’t know if Clark can ever escape that baggage but Jon and the other takes may be able to.
Great analysis about what’s driving the backlash by the way!
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
I think he was actually just looking at her underwear with permission and being a bit of a flirty schoolboy. Keep in mind, the movie opens with a child narrating. I think they wanted to play that scene flirtatious, but not... Well I don't think the intent was to have Lois ask if he's a generous lover, but it does kind of play out that way.
The slang has only made it a bit more explicit, but I think the intent is more innocent.
Their relationship works best when it's portrayed as wholesome but also clear they get down pretty often. It's not sexless by any nature, but there's a gentle quality to their connection that's pretty important and that's kind of why that scene really captured them. There's flirtation, but there's a light touch too.
And to be crass, I imagine every viewing going forward after the "heroes don't do that" meme ensures viewers will read that as Lois trying to be both clever and delicate in discovering if box is in Superman's diet.
Clark has wholesome elements to him, certainly, but he also knocks people's heads in and absolutely has a bit of a scoundrel's pep in his step if you're being honest with his history. Superdickery is the usual example, but it's a real thing about him. He does like to troll his loved ones sometimes. He's mischievous at times, prone to anger at others. He's distant or gets way to in his head about his effect on others. He's not perfect, but to the Midwest he's their Rockwellian security blanket that tells them nothing's wrong in America's heartland because everyone thinks they came from Smallville.
In trying to be the best of America, people use him as an excuse to overlook it's worst qualities, in this case homophobia.
It's an albatross the character will never remove from his neck simply because the American population generally thinks Kansas = red state and don't question if Smallville is a blue district due to gerrymandering.
But hey, why make sense when outrage is so much sexier?
I should note that I love that jon hugs Damian and that he's all willing to do so without reservation.
It's going to be made worse now with some regarding Jay's new power set which makes him impossible to hit in general due to being able to let things go through him. So there's going to be a lot more of the comments in regard to how much Better Jay is for Jon as a lover than Lois will be for Clark.
And the weird thing is this is never brought up with Diana or Steve, or Cyborg and his girlfriend, Kori and Dick, or even like Wally and Linda, or if we go to non hetro couples, like Kyle and Northstar or Hulkling and Wiccan or Valkyrie and her girlfriend. And that's the thing I think a lot of people who have this view look at it through the eyes of the male character most of the time. Or they use it to defend the idea that only strong female or male, types can please those of power. Again Peter Parker holds back when he fights, he could take someone's head off with a well timed punch, if he can control his powers in bed with MJ then certainly Clark can with Lois. So this idea that Jay is going to be better because the can "take it" makes me think that there's just a dislike of non powered love interests in general.It’s always been a disgusting thing to say about Lois and Clark. Not just because it equates the value of their relationship and connection as being defined by the physical (when obviously while sex is a big part of their relationship it’s not the entire reason they are connected/attracted/with each other) and it’s just a plain ugly and misogynist view about sex. It takes a story about the impossible and instead of theorizing how his powers could bring her pleasure focuses solely on female bodily pain. It doesn’t take into consideration that maybe Clark loves being able to be there for her in that way especially given how much he loves her. Not to mention it implies there isn’t value in creativity sexually or in gentleness and restraint with a partner which, again, is problematic. It’s a terrible, misogynist “theory” that no one should be bringing up in any serious way.
Totally agree with you on this. I've seen way to many fanfiction written about same sex pairings that use this idea. That Pain must be the only way to show off feelings. I'm seeing some discussion of "does Jay like it rough because things can pass through him? If so does that mean that Jon will be able to be all hard on him in various ways because he would need to feel it some how." And I'm grossed out by the thoughts of it that way.So, yeah, I’m not thrilled to know that may become a Convo with Jon and Jay because there are also plenty of ways this theory becomes offensive when you are talking about two men. It still boils down sexual connection as being solely about penetration, it’s still heteronormative and it still enforces rape culture by implying that force and strength are absolute and implying there isn’t pleasure and satisfaction to be be found in gentleness, love and creativity.
Thanks I hate it!
Yeah I noticed that, probably because it's Batman and Millar, so you can't complain too much. Most Superman readers don't read DKR for Superman though in that book.
Pretty much yes, I would say this is a huge part of it. Others have pointed out other factors too, due to who Superman is and what he's stood for over the years.
I think it's more like they want a non legacy character to do it.
I love these analogies! No you wouldn't pick up a baby the same way you pick up a fallen dresser. And yes logic flies out the window usually when people are confronted by these factors. Agreed with the whole better fit thing, absolutely wrong, but they can try. I wouldn't say people are forgetting about her. She's still around in art, and if she shows up again in the Superman/Robin book, people are sure to recall who she is. Oh I would agree. I feel like Jay is a weird mix of Kitty Pryde, Kamala with his fangirl aspects, and like a bit of Jean gray mixed in there. I don't know why but like Jay is reminding me more of a Xmen Character in a lot of ways.
According to my dad, no, it wasn't. Yeah it's been upgraded in a way from being a simple. "i like the color" to something way dirtier. I mean it's dirty in that he's looking at her undies, but now it's got a different feel with how people take that line."I like pink very much, Lois!"
Was pink a euphemism for vagina in the 70s? If not, it's even filthier now.
That movie gets better with age. Fight me.
To a point it might be simplified, but it seems more of a "short hand" than a legit misreading.
I'm sure there are some conservatives out there (they're not *all* crazy bigots) who have legitimate issues with this that aren't homophobic. Hell, even Cain's remarks about how this would have been cutting edge twenty years ago and is now more corporate gimmick than anything....that's not far off from what I myself said, and I certainly have no problem with Jon being bi.
But pretty much every comment I've seen from the rightwing.....at best there's a slight nugget of a reasonable argument there (like Cain), but at the core it's like, 95% homophobia. Granted I've only seen stuff coming from the craziest end of the rightwing where all the bigots are...but the reasonable Republicans have largely been forced out of the national conversation.
And if conservatives think that everything wholesome and good about Superman matches their political views then....well, that's just a big "no." But admitting that the best parts of Superman don't fall into either political party's dogma wouldn't fit their current victim narrative of "poor us, all the good things in America are dying because our party is in decline and we need gerrymandering to win elections!" Never mind the fact that most versions of Clark are clearly left leaning and he was rarely ever a clear conservative in the first place (outside of a few times like parts of the 50's and 80's).
Just so we don't get too deep into the politics or name calling, I'm not a democrat. I'm an independent and have almost equal loathing for both groups.
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
UGH. I really could do with less sexism against Lois, let's see how these things develop and the reaction of the fandom.
So his power is phasing things throught his body...I don't think it is really that helpful on sex...
It's funny how expressions change over time. There is one really funny with Iron Man and Captain America. But I think Superman knew she was using pink panties?
I know Aerosmith has a song called pink that is about sexual organs and it was released on 90s
I have seen a lot of taling of gay men perpetuating toxic masculinity, so man women kleenex repurposed on a homosexual relationship isn't possitive.
Mountain from Game of Thrones is really huge, one of the strongest men on the world. His wife is small, normal body. Now they have a kid and he seems very in love with his wife. They are so adorable together
Last edited by Writerblog; 10-16-2021 at 08:36 AM.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Even the complaints that have a vaguely valid point are still often wrapped up in homophobia and their "valid" points are thinly veiled attempts to hide the fact.
I'm sure there are arguments against this that are utterly fair and valid. I haven't seen them but the world is a big place and I'm sure those arguments are out there. But they're not coming from Fox News or the other talking heads on the right end of the American political spectrum.
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
Which is the height of irony, because Kansas was anything but conservative around the time of Superman's creation. The very ideals at Superman's core are anathema to conservative (and while we're at it, neoliberal) goals.
I cannot possibly second all of this emphatically enough.
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For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
www.jamiekelleymusic.com
TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/
Was Kansas used deliberately by Siegel and Shuster or was it just a random state that they picked?