Does Anyone Think the Key To Mutant Survival is the Death of Moira X?

[jwatson]

I think this is life 10th. And it will end horribly.

Moira will be reborn for an eleventh life and be killed before her powers manifest.

Mutants will know that the previous life still failed, and that's the life where they had it best. They still face extinction and know that there will be no more do-overs with Moira out the picture. Resurrections will probably also be done for.

Inferno #1 The day moira made the wrong choice by not wanting to bring destiny back for the final time. Even if it all resets Destiny done with her now.

[The tall man]

It may be too late for Moira's death to matter (depending on which of these two scenarios is true) May be a long read but hopefully it gets you thinking..

A breakdown of clues that Moira is indeed a villain. Before you get to reading this hold the words of Destiny for a moment ‘There will be an Island not the First but The last’ Ok let’s move forward and I may show you why this may be the critical clue to what I believe fits like hand in glove with Moira’s ultimate goal…I have pondered on HoX Pox for long and there are subtle clues seeded especially in the Powers of X books. Let’s start in life 6 the longest life.In powers of X6 The Librarian was conflicted ,because he probably had residual human individuality when he said “I question the wisdom of it, becoming.. something immaterial. Do I let you die and perhaps in our next life you can prevent our becoming part of the universal machine state’ How I this important?... well just before he explained ‘If you die before our phalanx makes it to the nearest black hole[Dominion],then all that I know will not become part of[known to] the Dominion..When you annihilate this reality[upon your death) then you’ll be right back where you started( i.e free to avert the Phalanx/Dominion ascension of homo novissima)… but if you live past my becoming god..then existing beyond space and time we will know you forever.’ Now back up to Powers ofX4 The Librarian learns that ascension ‘does not work with biological entities..so the Elder made a host machine, an empty vessel and copied himself over to it before the Phalanx absorbed it’ So as a mutant Moira could not be absorbed by the phalanx. Now where it all could come together is in House of X3 Look at the black line of Moira’s life X we are shown that Xavier or Magneto have had a schism by year 47 while Moira fakes her death with the Shiar Golem in year 50, Supporting this course of events is Moira’s own diary in entry number 52, we learn the Xavier –Magneto schism has happened when she says ‘we have lost Magneto’ on the heels of that Moira says in entry 57 ‘Charles and I will use a Shiar Golem – a living husk ..and properly prepared genetic material and a backup copy from Cerebro. We will fake my death using a replica and I will return to the Shadows where I belong’ So basically the takeaway is what we think is life 10 is actually happening twice,It is life 10 on the map that is why House of x is year 52 but it is life 11 where year 52 is called year one! The timeline of life 11 really deviates from life 10 in year 52 … Xavier is going through a déjà vu when meeting the golem at the fair-the Year1 in Powers of x6 but he doesn’t remember or understand how. So in essence the ruse Magneto and Xavier are falling for is that they think the Moira they know is human(she was human in life 10), when in fact the one they know now is a machine (the golem in life 11) The faking of her death being the last entry in her journal says this is yet to happen .While this ‘faking of death’ was yet to happen in life 10 in the journal , the map shows us the event already occurred leaving us in little doubt that we are actually in life 11 already .Now that we have our plausible theory we ask the big question if the Golem existed in life 10, why is it in life 11?

1] Everything in life 11 happens exactly as it did in life 10 by design , in life 11 the real Moira despite her earlier misgivings on recruiting Sinister, tried it herself. In all likelihood armed with knowledge of life 10 she and Sinister created the golem in life 11 at an earlier point and this very Golem is walking in her exact footsteps with all her memories of life 10(alternatively it could be using her life 10 journal just like we know Moira in life 10 is holding the journal of life 3). If the ‘loss of magneto’ happens in life 11 differently than it did in life 10, could Inferno be this very schism? Notice Xavier and Magneto are both resurrected by Emma, we can ask ourselves who kills them? Is it that they kill each other or is it Moira’s golem to cover her tracks? Perhaps it’s the latter because they discover her journal revealing that Krakoa is not a novel reality but has already existed once before [remember what Destiny said] and maybe this infuriates Magneto to go after Xavier because he allowed to get duped ..(that maybe an embellishment but it is a valid presumption.) It is just as likely that the golem kills them because the date of the Phalanx arrival in her journal is discovered by them and it is to be much sooner than anticipated leaving us in no doubt that the Golem is setting up events to ascend to the Phalanx.

2] A similar but even more dangerous scenario is Moira has ultimately suceeded … in life 10 Moira thought of everything. She had the Golem created ready for the ascension to be activated just before her own death in life 10. Life 10 happened just like life 6 thousands of years -or a century if she moved pieces in place for mutants to lose sooner-into the future the Golem ascends as an artifice, while real Moira dies like any biological organism. As a result of the successful ascension when Moira reincarnated in life 11 she has knowledge fed to her by the Phalanx to destroy Krakoa much sooner. That would explain why she is hiding from Destiny because Destiny knows what she did and also why Destiny isn’t certain whether she was seeing her living 10 or 11 lives precisely because the 11th resurrection is ‘unnatural’ and even explains why Destiny sees the island twice. If this were true either way it would show that (i) Assuming that Moira is innocent Xavier’s idea embracing machines caused all their problems -the golem is going rogue in life 11 to avenge its destruction in life 10 (ii)Possibly Moira is devious as hell. (Iii) The only way left to stop losing is for Xmen to destroy the Phalanx and Dominions in a galactic/cosmic war.

*Disclaimer* maybe the writers have other plans..and my imagination is way out there ..we wait and see.

Interesting theories and possibilities and maybe if Hickman had stayed on to complete his 3 act storyline some of this would have been incorporated in some fashion. But with him gone and these current batch of writers we're left with I don't think we will get anywhere near a satisfying ending involving Homo Novissima, The Phalanx or the Dominions. That was all Hickman's plans, his endgame, I don't think these editors and writers are in any hurry to end this story and why would they when they can milk it for all it's worth. And if they do arrive at an ending (years and years down the road) it will be nowhere as epic or climatic as what Hickman was building up to. Once Inferno is over I wouldn't expect Moira and her past lives, Homo Novissima, The Phalanx or the Dominions to be relevant to the future of Krakoa or mutants. I think the whole "mutants always lose" narrative will be sidelined or done away with entirely. A pity really because I don't see this current group of x-writers doing anything as epic in scope as what Hickman was setting up. Expect derivative, meandering and lackluster stories going forward

[Rev9]

Interesting theories and possibilities and maybe if Hickman had stayed on to complete his 3 act storyline some of this would have been incorporated in some fashion. But with him gone and these current batch of writers we're left with I don't think we will get anywhere near a satisfying ending involving Homo Novissima, The Phalanx or the Dominions. That was all Hickman's plans, his endgame, I don't think these editors and writers are in any hurry to end this story and why would they when they can milk it for all it's worth. And if they do arrive at an ending (years and years down the road) it will be nowhere as epic or climatic as what Hickman was building up to. Once Inferno is over I wouldn't expect Moira and her past lives, Homo Novissima, The Phalanx or the Dominions to be relevant to the future of Krakoa or mutants. I think the whole "mutants always lose" narrative will be sidelined or done away with entirely. A pity really because I don't see this current group of x-writers doing anything as epic in scope as what Hickman was setting up. Expect derivative, meandering and lackluster stories going forward

Hi Tallman, glad to know you find my theory interesting.I ABSOLUTELY agree with everything you said.It would be proper for this brainchild of Hickman to be completed by Hickman himself.It's bittersweet for me because ,I don't want the aftermath of Inferno to completely unravel everything Hickman set up.There is a lot to play with there so I can see how he left the in-between to be filled by other writers.However if the writers put this all on a back burner and start with trivial filler that is typical stuff we had for years.I'll be hugely disappointed.I think Hickman eventually in a few years should come and complete the Moira and Dominions story and that is why I feel scenario number 2 of Moira already having ascended creates an incredible opportunity to keep Krakoa in play and build the stakes.With scenario number one she could be stopped definitely and if I'm close to what the X-Office dictated we may get scenario number 1 where the bleak future is averted, but I feel it cuts out the potential for going cosmic eventually.Anyway I could be way off base and Hickman may have been rushed and hamstrung to tie the story up in ways that are less ambitious to put it mildly.Which would be sad imo.What can we do though? I still hold out the hope that the way Inferno ends will leave a surprising twist to not completely close the door on this Destiny-Moira-Krakoa-Nimrod-Phalanx saga.If I were writing and choosing to go with Scenario 1, I'd reveal while Krakoa stopped the Golum in current time, the real Moira of life 11 jumped back in time maybe with the help of a Krakoa mutant (kills him/her on arrival) and we see a fast forward a year later she is part of some secret scientific team that developed the Ecuador vault ,say in the 1940s..and end the saga by showing her being closed with a few of first test subjects in the vault ..Moira is Madre? We all know Homo Novissima are the CoV...anyone notice how conveniently in Xmen1 the Orchis invasion sets Sarefina free to alert the CoV that evolution level 3 is necessary?..and who gave Xavier the genius idea to send Darwin in there to boost CoV to level 4? Real Moira /Madre in vault getting help from fake Moira outside the vault whispering in Xavier's ear..absolutely brilliant!It can be all connected to Moira if the writers have enough foresight to make her a master strategist.. let's wait and see..

[PeterParked]

It may be too late for Moira's death to matter (depending on which of these two scenarios is true) May be a long read but hopefully it gets you thinking..

A breakdown of clues that Moira is indeed a villain. Before you get to reading this hold the words of Destiny for a moment ‘There will be an Island not the First but The last’ Ok let’s move forward and I may show you why this may be the critical clue to what I believe fits like hand in glove with Moira’s ultimate goal…I have pondered on HoX Pox for long and there are subtle clues seeded especially in the Powers of X books. Let’s start in life 6 the longest life.In powers of X6 The Librarian was conflicted ,because he probably had residual human individuality when he said “I question the wisdom of it, becoming.. something immaterial. Do I let you die and perhaps in our next life you can prevent our becoming part of the universal machine state’ How I this important?... well just before he explained ‘If you die before our phalanx makes it to the nearest black hole[Dominion],then all that I know will not become part of[known to] the Dominion..When you annihilate this reality[upon your death) then you’ll be right back where you started( i.e free to avert the Phalanx/Dominion ascension of homo novissima)… but if you live past my becoming god..then existing beyond space and time we will know you forever.’ Now back up to Powers ofX4 The Librarian learns that ascension ‘does not work with biological entities..so the Elder made a host machine, an empty vessel and copied himself over to it before the Phalanx absorbed it’ So as a mutant Moira could not be absorbed by the phalanx. Now where it all could come together is in House of X3 Look at the black line of Moira’s life X we are shown that Xavier or Magneto have had a schism by year 47 while Moira fakes her death with the Shiar Golem in year 50, Supporting this course of events is Moira’s own diary in entry number 52, we learn the Xavier –Magneto schism has happened when she says ‘we have lost Magneto’ on the heels of that Moira says in entry 57 ‘Charles and I will use a Shiar Golem – a living husk ..and properly prepared genetic material and a backup copy from Cerebro. We will fake my death using a replica and I will return to the Shadows where I belong’ So basically the takeaway is what we think is life 10 is actually happening twice,It is life 10 on the map that is why House of x is year 52 but it is life 11 where year 52 is called year one! The timeline of life 11 really deviates from life 10 in year 52 … Xavier is going through a déjà vu when meeting the golem at the fair-the Year1 in Powers of x6 but he doesn’t remember or understand how. So in essence the ruse Magneto and Xavier are falling for is that they think the Moira they know is human(she was human in life 10), when in fact the one they know now is a machine (the golem in life 11) The faking of her death being the last entry in her journal says this is yet to happen .While this ‘faking of death’ was yet to happen in life 10 in the journal , the map shows us the event already occurred leaving us in little doubt that we are actually in life 11 already .Now that we have our plausible theory we ask the big question if the Golem existed in life 10, why is it in life 11?

1] Everything in life 11 happens exactly as it did in life 10 by design , in life 11 the real Moira despite her earlier misgivings on recruiting Sinister, tried it herself. In all likelihood armed with knowledge of life 10 she and Sinister created the golem in life 11 at an earlier point and this very Golem is walking in her exact footsteps with all her memories of life 10(alternatively it could be using her life 10 journal just like we know Moira in life 10 is holding the journal of life 3). If the ‘loss of magneto’ happens in life 11 differently than it did in life 10, could Inferno be this very schism? Notice Xavier and Magneto are both resurrected by Emma, we can ask ourselves who kills them? Is it that they kill each other or is it Moira’s golem to cover her tracks? Perhaps it’s the latter because they discover her journal revealing that Krakoa is not a novel reality but has already existed once before [remember what Destiny said] and maybe this infuriates Magneto to go after Xavier because he allowed to get duped ..(that maybe an embellishment but it is a valid presumption.) It is just as likely that the golem kills them because the date of the Phalanx arrival in her journal is discovered by them and it is to be much sooner than anticipated leaving us in no doubt that the Golem is setting up events to ascend to the Phalanx.

2] A similar but even more dangerous scenario is Moira has ultimately suceeded … in life 10 Moira thought of everything. She had the Golem created ready for the ascension to be activated just before her own death in life 10. Life 10 happened just like life 6 thousands of years -or a century if she moved pieces in place for mutants to lose sooner-into the future the Golem ascends as an artifice, while real Moira dies like any biological organism. As a result of the successful ascension when Moira reincarnated in life 11 she has knowledge fed to her by the Phalanx to destroy Krakoa much sooner. That would explain why she is hiding from Destiny because Destiny knows what she did and also why Destiny isn’t certain whether she was seeing her living 10 or 11 lives precisely because the 11th resurrection is ‘unnatural’ and even explains why Destiny sees the island twice. If this were true either way it would show that (i) Assuming that Moira is innocent Xavier’s idea embracing machines caused all their problems -the golem is going rogue in life 11 to avenge its destruction in life 10 (ii)Possibly Moira is devious as hell. (Iii) The only way left to stop losing is for Xmen to destroy the Phalanx and Dominions in a galactic/cosmic war.

*Disclaimer* maybe the writers have other plans..and my imagination is way out there ..we wait and see.

I think that when Destiny says “the last island” it means “not Utopia”, so that Mystique doesn’t get confused when Utopia happens, additionally, only Moira has multiple lives, so Mystique has now way to use the “the last one” tip if it referrers to a previous version of Krakoa from a previous Moira’s life, only Moira would know that.

As for killing Moira to save mutants, it could be, perhaps she is not a villain, but it may very well be that their attempts to manipulate history/society are the constant that causes mutants to “fail”; if someone will kill her, in this life or the next as a child, I think it will be Wolverine though, he already did in POX, and as he said “it’s what I do”.

It’s also possible that, because this is not the real Hickman endgame, some plots will be solved (orchis, Destiny/Moira) but not all, and Moira will stay alive, after all from what we know Krakoa will stay in some form so resetting the world killing Moira could not be in the cards anymore. She is, in her current form, one of Hickman’s biggest addition to the mutant narrative and the others writers may want to keep her alive.

As far as the Phalanx, Dominions etc. I have the strong feeling that, as it happened for the Incursions / End of multiverse storyline, that Hickman was writing in his FF run and was then moved to Avengers because it was a bigger better book for that story, something similar could happen with the Phalanx / end of humanity as we know it. Hickman said that Marvel now expects him to write big event books that sell a lot and not ongoings anymore, maybe that is going to be one of the next marvel universe-wide big events, not limited to the X-Men.

[Rev9]

I always knew first Island meant 'Utopia' .I hold that view still, but the way it is worded could be Moira's biggest secret hiding in plain sight ..the language. No Destiny would know if Krakoa existed twice, it's Destiny who used the words! She likely knew but did not bother Mystique with the details in any case the second Krakoa is the danger not the first going by the warning...it is likely in life 10 precogs were resurrected.In any case I don't think Destiny gave Mystique warnings for all the lives only the one that mattered most .Also remember how unsure Destiny of how many lives Moira has she is non committal about the number,why? It could be because seeing two Krakoas confuses her..it would make sense at least from confusing which one is the problem future.What is more look at how she words the caveat in Hox3 'I see ten lives.Maybe eleven if you make the right choice at the end ..but that is all' This is a huge clue.Moira needs to prolong her lives by being 'good' ,once the 10 lives are done in her last life she has no pretense to keep! That is what got me thinking on this and when I read all over again with this in mind ,it all fell in place for me.As I said I may be wrong ,but I could see how revealing we are already in life 11 would be a big surprise.Plus if this is Moira's absolute last life,we need not fear a reset and reality becomes stable.

[Mutant 77]

I hope that in the end Moira will reset the timeline to the Post-Claremont 1991, right after X-Men #1-3. Let's redo it.