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  1. #1
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    Default The X-Men's history has been manipulated since day one

    I think that the Moira X revelation is just one of the best and most genius twists in comic book history. Ever.
    So basically, back to their first encounter, Moira revealed the entire truth to Xavier, and together they have been manipulating the X-Men since day one. Quite frankly, I guess that Xavier absorbed much more informations than what he claimed to have gained (from Moira), and the entire X-Men's history has been channeled and partially "staged" in a profound way.

    I just think that some X-Men, especially Wolverine, should have left Xavier, the team and Krakoa, because they might/should feel definitely BETRAYED by him and Moira, and basically used as "puppets". What do you think about it? Many X-Men endured terrible tragedies, but Xavier did not reveal the truth to them at the right time.

    This is not gonna end in a good way.
    Last edited by Mutant 77; 10-12-2021 at 01:25 PM.
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  2. #2
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    I think that the Moira X revelation is just one of the best and most genius twists in comic book history. Ever.
    So basically, back to their first encounter, Moira revealed the entire truth to Xavier, and together they have been manipulating the X-Men since day one. Quite frankly, I guess that Xavier absorbed much more informations than what he claimed to have gained (from Moira), and the entire X-Men's history has been channeled and partially "staged" in a profound way.

    I just think that some X-Men, especially Wolverine, should have left Xavier, the team and Krakoa, because they might/should feel definitely BETRAYED by him and Moira, and basically used as "puppets". What do you think about it? Many X-Men endured terrible tragedies, but Xavier did not reveal the truth to them at the right time.

    This is not gonna end in a good way.
    Make me wonder exactly how much of the X-men history had been "staged" and to what extent..

  3. #3
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    We saw it happen a bit in Spider-man w/ Mephisto and Kindred and many people didn't like it.Depends on how much it is though, because this could very well render Xavier redemptionless.

  4. #4
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    "Make me wonder exactly how much of the X-men history had been "staged" and to what extent.."

    I would say not much.
    As it's made clear in PoX 06...Xavier and Magneto (X more-so than M), even after having greater knowledge of Moira's past lives, still went about doing things their own way, by their own volition and according to their own personal ideologies, thinking that they can avoid Moira's "Inevitability of Failure". It's Xavier's final realisation (on the park bench) and proverbial slap in the face that Mutants Always Lose that snaps him out of his dream of peaceful co-existence with humans and goads him into formulating and building Moira's ultimate plan: Krakoa, Mutant Nation.

    And while Moira has definitely manipulated certain situations to her favour since she came into her mutant power in the 616, she would have had to let far more events (the ones that don't directly involve her) play out organically so as not to let her plans come to a head too soon.

    And remember, other than Magneto, Xavier and Moira...no one else knows the full depth and breadth of Moira's plans so for Scott and Jean and everyone else, there's no "betrayal", there's only, living for the dream.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post

    And remember, other than Magneto, Xavier and Moira...no one else knows the full depth and breadth of Moira's plans so for Scott and Jean and everyone else, there's no "betrayal", there's only, living for the dream.
    FOR NOW.
    Wait until they discover the full truth.
    Last edited by Mutant 77; 10-13-2021 at 11:30 AM.
    "MUTANT... AND PROUD!" - Mystique, Cuba 1962.

  6. #6
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    When Banshee was chasing down Omega Red, which was before there was an X-Men team he was being manipulated by Magneto. When Moira turned up at the mansion as the housekeeper her and Xavier spotted an opportunity to use Banshee as her long term bodyguard.

    Yes there's been manipulation going on for a long time, for some the full realisation is going to be much worse than for others.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Joe View Post

    Yes there's been manipulation going on for a long time, for some the full realisation is going to be much worse than for others.
    Indeed. This will bring serious consequences.
    "MUTANT... AND PROUD!" - Mystique, Cuba 1962.

  8. #8
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    If true…that’s evil. Banshee was well and truly hosed.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    FOR NOW.
    Wait until they discover the full truth.
    I wonder how Xavier got past Jean the Omega telepath earlier ,when he attended the council meetings .Maybe he used to erase his own memories? Can he even do that though?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I wonder how Xavier got past Jean the Omega telepath earlier ,when he attended the council meetings .Maybe he used to erase his own memories? Can he even do that though?
    This is a great question.
    "MUTANT... AND PROUD!" - Mystique, Cuba 1962.

  11. #11
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    I think that the Moira X revelation is just one of the best and most genius twists in comic book history. Ever.
    So basically, back to their first encounter, Moira revealed the entire truth to Xavier, and together they have been manipulating the X-Men since day one. Quite frankly, I guess that Xavier absorbed much more informations than what he claimed to have gained (from Moira), and the entire X-Men's history has been channeled and partially "staged" in a profound way.

    I just think that some X-Men, especially Wolverine, should have left Xavier, the team and Krakoa, because they might/should feel definitely BETRAYED by him and Moira, and basically used as "puppets". What do you think about it? Many X-Men endured terrible tragedies, but Xavier did not reveal the truth to them at the right time.

    This is not gonna end in a good way.
    In addition to wondering what the reaction will be by some longtime X-men when all this is revealed (probably in Inferno), I also wonder about how much Cable knew about Moira? I mean, he’s a powerful telepath and has been inside her head to learn to speak English after he first arrived back in this era from the far future. She’s the first person he met here, and he helped her build Muir Island. So with his knowledge of the future — or a future at least — and her knowledge of possible futures from her other lives, how did they not compare notes? Or did they?

    That one still bothers me that it hasn’t been addressed. Maybe it will be before it’s all said and done.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    In addition to wondering what the reaction will be by some longtime X-men when all this is revealed (probably in Inferno), I also wonder about how much Cable knew about Moira? I mean, he’s a powerful telepath and has been inside her head to learn to speak English after he first arrived back in this era from the far future. She’s the first person he met here, and he helped her build Muir Island. So with his knowledge of the future — or a future at least — and her knowledge of possible futures from her other lives, how did they not compare notes? Or did they?

    That one still bothers me that it hasn’t been addressed. Maybe it will be before it’s all said and done.
    I think Moira has the power to "lock" her memories related to the previous lives.
    "MUTANT... AND PROUD!" - Mystique, Cuba 1962.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    This is a great question.
    Another important question is how Xavier didn't know Mystique was cooking up a Destiny resurrection.Though here I guess either Emma was helping with 'mindscaping' or Sinister has been making Mystique clones to attend the meetings with blank minds while Mystique prime has been busy doing her thing. Still weird of Xavier not to be onto Emma at least..is Emma working with Exodus? That I find VERY hard to believe but let's wait and see.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    In addition to wondering what the reaction will be by some longtime X-men when all this is revealed (probably in Inferno), I also wonder about how much Cable knew about Moira? I mean, he’s a powerful telepath and has been inside her head to learn to speak English after he first arrived back in this era from the far future. She’s the first person he met here, and he helped her build Muir Island. So with his knowledge of the future — or a future at least — and her knowledge of possible futures from her other lives, how did they not compare notes? Or did they?

    That one still bothers me that it hasn’t been addressed. Maybe it will be before it’s all said and done.
    In what issue did they meet?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron of Faltine View Post
    Make me wonder exactly how much of the X-men history had been "staged" and to what extent..
    I think only life 10 is staged, not lives 4-8, remember Destiny wanted Moira to work for mutants and if she lived her lives 'well' she'd have an extra life.So Moira not being omniscient herself had to try have at best a stab at saving mutantdom and at worst play the part.So I believe just like Xavier she had to learn what works .My assumption is lives 4-8 are genuine and are the lives Xavier was convinced by( after seeing his dream failed in them) to try something new.I think in life 9 he saw that Moira took radical steps to ally with Apocalypse in her most brutal life. Another clue is life 6 is the longest but Moira was already aware she would need a golem to ascend if she is indeed a deceiver and did not go on to have a golum crafted until life 10.So all in all only life 10 is when Xavier is perhaps deceived. It should also be of keen interest that in life 10 we are not told of Moira dying..why is that so? It doesn't fit, she meets Xavier and goes to recruit Magneto in life ten in year 43, yet house of X only begins in year 52.Yet in Powers of X #6 we see the mention of year 0ne.It cannot be Moira's own life log as year one cannot be year 42 or 43 on the map but it can be year 'one' i.e the first year for her Golem clone to exist .That would fit with all the subtle clues. All along Xavier and Magneto are interacting with the Golem in my theory
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-16-2021 at 07:13 AM.

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