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  1. #16
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    In what issue did they meet?
    It was in this one…



    The Minus One issue that came out in the 90s. Pretty solid. Worth checking out in light of HoX/PoX.

  2. #17
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    In addition to wondering what the reaction will be by some longtime X-men when all this is revealed (probably in Inferno), I also wonder about how much Cable knew about Moira? I mean, he’s a powerful telepath and has been inside her head to learn to speak English after he first arrived back in this era from the far future. She’s the first person he met here, and he helped her build Muir Island. So with his knowledge of the future — or a future at least — and her knowledge of possible futures from her other lives, how did they not compare notes? Or did they?

    That one still bothers me that it hasn’t been addressed. Maybe it will be before it’s all said and done.
    Most likely they didn't, considering Moira would have wanted to keep her secrets for only Charles. And there is honour amongst Telepaths to not pry without permission. Also, there are so many multiple future and past timelines that even if Cable had glimpsed any of hers he wouldn't necessarily be suspicious.

    Best answer though...HiX-Man is just ignoring all of that (and rightly so) so as not to muddy the already cloudy waters of his plot.
    The only backlash I foresee is from those on the QC who have been kept in the dark about Moira's existence and plans from the beginning of Mutant Nation Krakoa. Everything else before that is pretty much irrelevant.
    And again...while Xavier might have known about Moira's lives she obviously didn't 1: Tell him everything. And 2: He wasn't her puppet doing everything she said biddingly. On more occasions he acted on his own volition according to his own beliefs and ideology.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-16-2021 at 10:06 AM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  3. #18
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    Even if Xavier was not a "puppet", I still think that the entire history has been manipulated, and the X-Men would not love that when they'll find it out.

  4. #19
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Also...how could the "entire" history be manipulated when
    1: Moira wasn't around for a large part of that history? (Presumably biding her time when she must make her final move, Only showing up in specific storylines)
    2: Charles wasn't around for a large part of that history post UXM 200 (December 1985) until his return in UXM 276 (May 1991). As he was with the Shi'ar convalescing during that time.

    Which leaves out nearly all Major X-Events from Mutant Massacre up to but excluding Muir Isle Saga, and entire runs like X-Factor which started in 1986 and Excalibur, started in 1987. And many others, in that time.

    So...while a case can spuriously be made for Moira/Charles shenanigans pre X-1986 and post X-1991 to present...that's not the "entire" history.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-17-2021 at 04:36 PM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Surprised this isn't an old ass thread lol.

    Either way, while it's hard to say just how much Moira has been manipulating stuff, since she has has 9 other lives, and mentions in HoX#2 that she knows how everything changes even if she does nothing, it sounds like she's the reason Legion exists:



    (PoX#6)

    So there is at least that.

    I don't think she has been manipulating stuff too much, 'cause if life 4 is any hint, the events with the X-Men were pretty similar to life 10's, until they all died to a vague sentinel attack, so I think what she did in life 10 was plant the seeds of Krakoa **** around, then basically just did a repeat of life 4 until HoX/PoX, which's still a lot, but doesn't make her into too much of a mastermind, specially since Inferno#1 vol 2 makes it quite clear that others may do stuff she doesn't consider, like Xavier and Magneto putting a tacking device on her.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Also...how could the "entire" history be manipulated when
    1: Moira wasn't around for a large part of that history? (Presumably biding her time when she must make her final move, Only showing up in specific storylines)
    2: Charles wasn't around for a large part of that history post UXM 200 (December 1985) until his return in UXM 276 (May 1991). As he was with the Shi'ar convalescing during that time.

    Which leaves out nearly all Major X-Events from Mutant Massacre up to but excluding Muir Isle Saga, and entire runs like X-Factor which started in 1986 and Excalibur, started in 1987. And many others, in that time.

    So...while a case can spuriously be made for Moira/Charles shenanigans pre X-1986 and post X-1991 to present...that's not the "entire" history.
    Those instances could be in life 6 which so far is not only the longest life ,but lacks a chronology. Just a guess

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Surprised this isn't an old ass thread lol.

    Either way, while it's hard to say just how much Moira has been manipulating stuff, since she has has 9 other lives, and mentions in HoX#2 that she knows how everything changes even if she does nothing, it sounds like she's the reason Legion exists:



    (PoX#6)

    So there is at least that.

    I don't think she has been manipulating stuff too much, 'cause if life 4 is any hint, the events with the X-Men were pretty similar to life 10's, until they all died to a vague sentinel attack, so I think what she did in life 10 was plant the seeds of Krakoa **** around, then basically just did a repeat of life 4 until HoX/PoX, which's still a lot, but doesn't make her into too much of a mastermind, specially since Inferno#1 vol 2 makes it quite clear that others may do stuff she doesn't consider, like Xavier and Magneto putting a tacking device on her.
    Legion maybe, but Proteus certainly.I find it hard to believe Proteus doesn't know anything about her. Maybe just like Irene told Mystique to act. Moira told Proteus to act if anything happens to her. It's only logical for Moira to have contingency plans especially in her penultimate life.

  8. #23
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    Now that I think about it, the scenario in the Beginnings Timeline (Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix) has a weird similarity with Hickman's huge retcon about Moira X. Indeed, Xavier absorbed the memories of the original timeline (Timeline Prime) from 2023 Wolverine's mind. This means that Xavier telepathically recorded names, powers, lives, events and secrets unveiled in a span of 50 years (1973-2023).
    I guess that we can safely assume that the history of the X-Men in the Beginnings Timeline is not entirely "genuine", but partially staged. That's my thought.

  9. #24
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Those instances could be in life 6 which so far is not only the longest life ,but lacks a chronology. Just a guess
    Everything we have read in this 616 is part of Moira's Life 10.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Legion maybe, but Proteus certainly.
    I think it's both, since Moira explicitly mentions that she was searching for such matches for herself and Xavier.

    Kinda funny she doesn't mention Magneto in there thinking of it .

    I find it hard to believe Proteus doesn't know anything about her. Maybe just like Irene told Mystique to act. Moira told Proteus to act if anything happens to her. It's only logical for Moira to have contingency plans especially in her penultimate life.
    Makes sense, she needs more safety nets than just Xavier and Magneto too, specially now that Destiny is around again.

    Still wonder what kind of beef she has with precogs, like, Destiny I can understand, being killed like that must've sucked, but the others could actually help to deal with the Nimrod nonsense, she must be planning something Magneto and Xavier won't like and maybe Proteus is involved.

    Thinking of it, her journal has two entries about Xavier that we can't read:

    https://i.imgur.com/Pashv1y.png

    https://i.imgur.com/qUxqsTK.png

    (PoX#6)

    So maybe it's something from Xavier in particular she's hiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Now that I think about it, the scenario in the Beginnings Timeline (Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix) has a weird similarity with Hickman's huge retcon about Moira X. Indeed, Xavier absorbed the memories of the original timeline (Timeline Prime) from 2023 Wolverine's mind. This means that Xavier telepathically recorded names, powers, lives, events and secrets unveiled in a span of 50 years (1973-2023).
    I guess that we can safely assume that the history of the X-Men in the Beginnings Timeline is not entirely "genuine", but partially staged. That's my thought.
    Comics can have unexpected repeats of storylines at times lol.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 10-19-2021 at 06:58 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    This is a great question.
    Yeah not even Xavier knew before she told him

  12. #27
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    I hope there are more mysteries to unveil about Xavier and Moira's past.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I think at some point it is going to be revealled that Xavier has been using his power to influence everyone on Krakoa to get along too. It is the only way to explain why so many mutants are willing to forgive and forget just how evil some of those monsters they are working with are. Screw mutant survival if the guy who killed me is standing next to me most would take them down hard. I think that is going to be a big thing in the eventual fall of Krakoa is Xavier losing control and the whole place erupting into a major battle.

    Xavier is a bad guy these days. He and Magneto have sort of flipped roles with Xavier now being the zealot.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    I think Moira has the power to "lock" her memories related to the previous lives.
    That would explain why Shadow King didn’t know anything and he was in her head for a couple years (real time, probably a few hours comic book time lol )

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Everything we have read in this 616 is part of Moira's Life 10.
    Sounds arbitrary, we don't know the events or their order to say life 10 definitively and exclusively describes 616.

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