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  1. #181
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    After the last 3 issues this one fell flat. No challenge at all for the team, Jean basically escorted Nightmare out of her home without even waking the dog so to speak. The small bit with Laura honestly could've been omitted entirely and the issue wouldn't have changed. The best part was the Dr. Stasis bit. He's trying to get himself some of those FF powers before he shows up to Arrako.

    Positive side, the artist was a great fill in for Laraz.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  2. #182
    Incredible Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    It's simple actually
    Hickman: Were you at the Omega list roll call?
    Jean : no
    Hickman : Your name is on the list though and it is marked present
    Jean : *Smiles*
    Hickman : Please repeat after me -'I am an Omega level telepath'
    Jean : I am an Omega level telepath
    Hickman : Please repeat after me 'I am not an Omega level telekinetic'
    Jean : I am an Omega level telekinetic
    Hickman : That's not what the list states, did you make your own list?
    Jean : Mr Duggan did
    Lol!

    I mean if we're being thorough the list already needs to be updated to include the Omega Arakkii mutants and delete Franklin.
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  3. #183
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    Forgot to add I hope Nightmare gets added to Jean’s rogue gallery. She needs more nemesis.

  4. #184
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I will not let this get lost in the shuffle. Carry on.
    Again, the most important part in this scan is Jean admitting correctly that she was a part of Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. That makes it more than just a clone story which we've attempted to explain before. Why it is important story wise is because it acknowledges what the character gained in the original inferno (the part of her soul that merged with the Phoenix) which is usually ignored by other writers. Too many times the character has denied being Phoenix or being a part of it while others times she seems to be acknowledged as being Phoenix so it gets confusing narratively. For me, I am happy when they acknowledge a part of Jean was always there in the merger and that she was a part of the original Phoenix/Dark Phoenix story because it effectively undoes the retcon - or as much as we can hope for because before Inferno one could always argue that Jean didn't have any part to play in the OG Phoenix/Dark Phoenix story -and years ago fans did just that especially on the boards.

    Just my continued two cents on this topic.

    I did love this issue. I love it when Jean is capable and she gets to do things. Jean fighting a demon was fun and I loved the dream sequences for both Jean and Cyclops. Jean will always strive to make up for what happened in the Dark Phoenix days and that is why we love the character. She will fail to balance the scales but she won't keep trying. I know some get annoyed with the overly empathic and compassionate Jean from X-men Red but Tom Taylor's Jean was that way because she wanted to do something good for the world/universe because she had been a part of a destructive force (we see the characterization continue).

    It annoys me that Green Phoenix gets ignored too much and all the times Jean did good things with the Phoenix (re: Morrison run for example) but there will likely always be a weight on Jean because of Dark Phoenix. Jean came across as a hero in this story and we are reminded of her motivations. No complaints from me.

    I think overall it was a fun Halloween story and it was a nice Jean focused issue.

  5. #185
    Mighty Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    Lol!

    I mean if we're being thorough the list already needs to be updated to include the Omega Arakkii mutants and delete Franklin.
    Omega Arakkii mutants totally remind me of The Neo.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    As I said elsewhere in this thread: The entire relationship was contained in a single issue, written entirely from Everett's POV, without us getting to actually see hers. We didn't get Laura's thoughts or feelings, only Ev's, and the relationship only served to further his character development rather than mutually developing both characters. That's because Vault!Laura died. The crux of which was how it impacted him. Vault!Laura was absolutely fridged.

    Compounding this was when these problems were called out, there were people who literally said that Ev needed the character development, as if that justifies reducing her to a prop to develop another character. And that's before you got a certain collection of Synch fans trying to play the Race Card.
    The way I see it..... Ev character development was because of being in the relationship, so his pov was more important then Lauras during the arc itself, because Laura's character development is not about what happened in the relationship, but the fact that she knows it happened but the memories are lost. So Laura's character development is because of the LACK of the relationship. Hopefully that makes sense. So we see the situation the same way as a reader and they did that very well and subconsciously. Since its Ev was BECAUSE of the relationship we saw it from his pov, while Lauras being because of the LACK of the memories of the relationship its important we dont see it, that we see as much as she does.

  7. #187
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Forgot to add I hope Nightmare gets added to Jean’s rogue gallery. She needs more nemesis.
    [editorial]

    She has her husband's other wives for that. What more does a superhero need?

    [/editorial]


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    After the last 3 issues this one fell flat. No challenge at all for the team, Jean basically escorted Nightmare out of her home without even waking the dog so to speak. The small bit with Laura honestly could've been omitted entirely and the issue wouldn't have changed. The best part was the Dr. Stasis bit. He's trying to get himself some of those FF powers before he shows up to Arrako.

    Positive side, the artist was a great fill in for Laraz.
    Agreed, the art was great.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 10-13-2021 at 07:18 PM.
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I was about to say something similar. It was a weird Halloween filler issue for the most part. They should have just released it as part of a special Halloween one-shot instead of this mixed up mess.

    Laura has had introspective nightmares and the like before. She had a great couple of similar things when she was around Ghost Rider. Except there it was part of her personal growth and long standing issues (does she have a soul, being a clone? and feeling like she deserves punishment/hell for all of the people she killed, etc.)

    I don't feel like there's much I can add to the Sync talk. It was just a mess of a plotline. Forced into a few panels in an extremely fast paced book with a lot of text dumps and little insight into the actual characters, and even here the entire idea feels lost. Its a major flaw most team books run into; not being able to handle having so many characters to work with.
    Its a weird trend I noticed with Halloween this year..... nothing Halloween related has been advertised as such. Treehouse of Horror on the Simpsons was three weeks earlier then normal and no advertising or talk about it. And a few sitcoms and all the other sunday night lineup animated shows did halloween. Yeah none of them have been advertised as halloween specials like they have in previous years.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I agree using one character to boost another is almost never right.

    But we got to see it all through Synch because he's the one who kept his memories.That's how we know what he feels, because we saw it all through his POV.The fact we only get it through his prespective is a great writing choice.It makes us relate w/ both Synch(explained) and Laura(she doesn't remember and we never saw it through her POV so we connect w/ the relationship less from her side).
    THIS THIS THIS!!!!!! When are they going to add a like button to these boards?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    You're misunderstanding me. I never said that they don't fight magical enemies, or that it's unreasonable for them to fight Nightmare. There are also magic-powered enemies and X-Men, and they've been around for decades. In fact, I've said before that Excalibur should deal with more of the magic concepts it established.

    My issue isn't that they're fighting an occult villain, it's that the story here was detached from the other stories the book has set up, probably won't lead anywhere, and can be largely skipped without missing much. That's what makes it filler. That doesn't mean it's bad or anything, just that it's likely unimportant in the long run.
    I think that the issue is that we have different definitions of filler. For me filler means does the issue have an importance or not. For you its does the issue have importance to the larger plot lines. This one for me is not filler because it has its own pupose. Its purpose was not to deal with the larger story but to be a holiday special in of itself. Its whole reason for being is as a holiday special. And because it has purpose, even if it just being a holiday special, its not filler. But it is to you because of longterm plots. The best example that pops up is Futurama's holiday specials fighting santabot, they had no major consquences longterm but I wouldnt call them filler episodes. Same with American Dad and Santa. They only are important for the holidays.

  11. #191
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Those make more sense than Sync.

    In on issue, they went from having no relationship to having this ultimate romance?

    And only Sync remembers and he wants her back, and we're supposed to now look at this story as Laura being afraid of how great her romance with Sync is. Sync also comes off creepy longing after her. But the male writers think, a man creepily longing for a woman makes him endearing.

    If you want a romance to succeed you don't tell people on day one how amazing it is, you show it to people over time. Now they will never be a popular couple. Look how much the Laura fans hate this book now.The best romances are slow burners.
    I am pretty sure that concept is dead or dying to be frank with you.

  12. #192
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Just finished a grueling assignment and wanted to pop in this bitch to fangirl. (Jean and I deserve this goddammit!)

    I'm still savoring the delicious aftertaste from this morning (I've only read the issue once), but I plan on diving back in for another taste as I settle in tonight. This issue made me reflect on being a Jean fan and my own life on so many levels... Anyway, there's so much I want to write, but I want to get the words just right, so I'll post my review either tomorrow or the day after.

    Duggan touched upon so many aspects of her character here, both established and new, and I...simply don't have the words right now. If I had to use one word to describe how Duggan depicted Jean in this issue, I would use iridescent. Her fears and insecurities were relatable, and her hopes and goals were inspiring without being mawkish. And getting to witness my favorite character rendered with such grace and dignity and strength and badassery was truly overwhelming.

    Ultimately, Jean's confrontation with Nightmare was about laying bare her psyche during the tail end of an era in which she has been an enigma to so many. Duggan laid some deep groundwork here. There is much to ponder and analyze...

    ::floats off in deep thought on waves of elation::

  13. #193
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    That actually does make sense. Scott siblings produce energy and he is more of a battery that takes solar energy in. It does make me wonder though, what happens if he attacks someone in space and they set up the right conditions like filong preparing himself for mars. It seems to be going somewhere.
    Doesn't Summer's powers come from another dimension and not the sun?

  14. #194
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I know you didn't ask my opinion but...my two pence.

    Not subscribing to that theory at all.
    Besides it being improbable, (given that last panel we see her fighting for her life and what we know of the CoV and how they used Darwin...even if she somehow survived) it seems pointless to throw a curveball like Vault Laura LIVES!!! into the mix when they're so careful about double resurrections. Plus it unnecessarily muddies and convolutes the existing situation to the point where it becomes a poorly written Claremontian Soap Opera Plot.
    Isn't Laura and Ev's situation dramatic enough as is, without turning it into a bad tele-novella?
    And that is exactly why it will happen because Marvel doesn't follow the path of logic and reason.

  15. #195
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    I get the feeling Nightmare will be back for some sort of revenge. His conversation with Jean set that up.

    If this really is his only issue, then boy did Duggan do him wrong, lol.
    I think its because they aren't meant to be the big bad of this run, it seems to come down to Doctor Stasis and Feilong, though i don't know if the guy from Space Vegas is also supposed to be a big bad or not. High Evolutionary and Nightmare are just monsters of the week tbh, i mean they are presented in way that they are powerful but then get nerfed or sent away at the last minute because again, they are not meant to be the looming threat as the other two (or three?) or at least that is how i saw it.

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