X-MEN #4 Reviews/Spoilers Thread

[Hulkout42]

Most definitely! If Nightmare for all the power that he wields gets so easily punked out like this, then who isn't speared from jobbing. When major powerhouses are so easily dispatched the story loses any and all credibility, and the fact that many just shrug and say it's ok because it's an omega is getting old. Gone are the days when being omega was simply about potential and not guaranteeing an automatic win. Jean is powerful no doubt, but the enormous power she and the other omegas display is absurd. I think the worst example was Jamie birthing a fully functioning space station into existence from nothing, after that feat I checked out. Man, marvel as a whole really needs to clamp down on these astronomical displays of power. From Jason Aaron and his nonsense over in Avengers to the over the top omega feats of the x-books.

That is what is hurting my interest for this book, i mean for example, High Evolutionary rolls on up and offers this killer virus to wipe out all humans but those with X gene, and then a fight breaks out and then we see him take hits from Sunfire, from Rogue, from Synch and everyone is looking at this an going gaga over them doing this but how many are thinking about HE taking these hits and not stopping, not going down and still talking smack and actually owning up to it and so we got HE elevated to a pretty high level of danger...and then stops because he saw what Synch did when copies his his right hands powers and gets some blood and that's that, he leaves, he could have won the fight anytime he wanted but doesn't and just leaves after having a TP talk with Jean.

Now to this, yes it is a filler story and not really what i say a very memorable one, but still again here we have Nightmare who after reading the comment on what he has done and then deciding to look his bio up to corroborate this i find that again someone is elevated to a high danger level and then gets nerfed because this gives Jean a moment to shine and i can see this makes her fans happy and they are of course well within their right to be so and i do not hold this against them in any form...but for this is just not good story telling.

So now i ask, given that we are now going to have Lorna shine, who is going to be the threat and just how nerfed is it going to be in this instance and is this really smart story telling?

Personally i don't think it is and the only reason i haven't drop this book is because i want to see what Stasis will do, what Fei Long will do and also what Ben Urich is going to do if he keeps going down the rabbit hole and finds out the truth and perhaps what may be the X-men response to this as well.

[thechronic92]

Doesn't the story also lose credibility if you have Jean who's supposed to be an omega level telepath lose a telepathic battle when according to Hickman's classification, she's supposed to have no upper limits and cannot be surpassed in any shape or form by anything?

[Mercury]

Doesn't the story also lose credibility if you have Jean who's supposed to be an omega level telepath lose a telepathic battle when according to Hickman's classification, she's supposed to have no upper limits and cannot be surpassed in any shape or form by anything?

Somehow, she’s powerful enough to evade detection by and ransack the mind of Knull, an actual god, but she shouldn’t be able to handle Nightmare, a demon levels beneath him, on the astral plane. That makes sense!

[Devaishwarya]

If Nightmare was owning everybody's ass and Jean was helpless to stop him...there'll be outcries against Duggan.
Jean is shown to be competent against a mega threat and...there's outcry about "nerfing" and too OP ****.
And so a hero beating the villain is now "bad" writing in superhero comics.

There's just no pleasing some and that's why the writers do not take any of that nonsense seriously...because quite frankly, none of you know what the hell you want to read.

Insanely powered villains have been defeated time and time again by heroes less powerful...that is comics, since inception and if some of you can't come to terms with that you might just need to stop reading comics all-together if it's such a painful chore and the writers cannot do anything right.

[Diammandis]

22 pages…comic book readers just can never be impressed cause why so much irritation for a simple 1issue arc.

[The tall man]

If Nightmare was owning everybody's ass and Jean was helpless to stop him...there'll be outcries against Duggan.
Jean is shown to be competent against a mega threat and...there's outcry about "nerfing" and too OP ****.
And so a hero beating the villain is now "bad" writing in superhero comics.

There's just no pleasing some and that's why the writers do not take any of that nonsense seriously...because quite frankly, none of you know what the hell you want to read.

Insanely powered villains have been defeated time and time again by heroes less powerful...that is comics, since inception and if some of you can't come to terms with that you might just need to stop reading comics all-together if it's such a painful chore and the writers cannot do anything right.

Yes insanely powerful villains get defeated by less powerful heroes but it should take some effort to accomplish and the villain should at least put up a decent fight and not come off as some chump. But nowadays it's just I'm an all-powerful omega so I can curb stomp anyone, where is the challenge in that? Any decent writer worth their money should be able to craft a story that showcases the adversaries in a fashion that doesn't downplay their abilities. But for some it's not about a compelling story its only about power levels and feats.

[JB]

I would guess a lot of X-Book readers don't even know who Nightmare is and don't quite care.

Comic writers notoriously write heroes and villains at varied power levels. It's like some of you are new.

[Subliminally]

I would guess a lot of X-Book readers don't even know who Nightmare is and don't quite care.

Comic writers notoriously write heroes and villains at varied power levels. It's like some of you are new.

Or just fully embracing the annoying flatscan habit of complaining to complain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Devaishwarya]

In the context of Duggan's story Nightmare wasn't doing anything truly overpowered and threatening as his power description indicates.
It being Halloween night, He was generally just prancing around in people's dreams having a gay old time when Jean found him out, put a stop to his silliness and sent him off with a stern warning.
In no part of the story I read did he unleash the ultimate totality of his might and powers, which he could have but didn't...which is why Jean just chastised him.
In the context of the story I don't think this one and done was actually meant to be a serious power display arc for either villain or hero...just a quiet moment for Jean to step up and flex a bit and...there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Mercury]

In the context of the story I don't think this one and done was actually meant to be a serious power display arc for either villain or hero...just a quiet moment for Jean to step up and flex a bit and...there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. The three issues preceding this one have been frenetic with action, which is something else people have complained about. (Personally, I've loved it.) This issue acts as an interlude focused on providing some - not complete, mind you - insight into the current fears and drives of three team members - Jean, Scott, and Laura - and as a character piece for Jean. It also slightly furthers the plotlines centered on Urich, Dr. Stasis, and Feilong. In either case, if you're not a Jean fan or even slightly interested in her development, I can see how this issue would be disappointing to you.

However, this entry was a welcome surprise for those of us who are fans of Jean and interested in her development, of which she has undergone little throughout the last two years. While I feel I know her well overall, I now feel I understand her better within the context of this team and the age of Krakoa as a whole. She still harbors guilt regarding the Dark Phoenix's actions and is making a conscious effort to remain restrained. Perhaps more importantly, though, she seems conflicted about how she has chosen to restrict and represent herself.

As I've noted before, I don't think Duggan wrote the dream sequence concerning Jean's costume flippantly, but rather as symbolic of the conflict between her ego and superego, to use Freudian terms, or her ego and personal unconscious, to use Jungian terms. (One can make the argument that the dream depicts a conflict between her id and ego, which is what I initially thought. However, I think her struggle is much closer to the surface and isn't so much about her base desires as it is about her guilt over "past sins" and fear of embracing life after Marvel Girl, perhaps because she associates everything that came after with the Phoenix Force. Or maybe Xavier simply meddled with her backup...)

In either case, if we view the dream through a Freudian paradigm, Emma represents her ego and Marvel Girl represents her superego. Alternatively, if we view it through a Jungian paradigm, Marvel Girl represents her ego and Emma represents her personal unconscious. In both cases, she is torn between who she feels she should be and who she wants to be or knows she already is. It's a subtle but fascinating shade to add to her character, and one that I feel foreshadows a change she is about to undergo between Inferno and X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine.

[Devaishwarya]

Freud and Jung? ...Lawd Faddah, I going to need more rum. LOL

[Kisinith]

The angst over Nightmare being defeated by an Omega level Telepath in a telepathic battle (that he was clearly unprepared for, while basically out on a joyride) seems to overlook that he has also been defeated by Captain America and Sharon Carter while trying to "corrupt the American Dream" and once by Stan Lee who repeatedly bludgeoned him with a tennis racket. Somehow, I don't think this issue has really done all that much to harm his status.

A bit more seriously, people in a rush to condemn the issue seem to think that just because a character is capable of achieving X levels of power, that any time they don't bring all of it to bear means they were somehow out of character. In a fight one of the most important tactics is to catch the enemy by surprise. Nightmare wasn't enacting some devious plot to take out the X-Men, he was taking an opportunistic lark to Earth and got caught by surprise. He was able to launch a heavy attack but it played into Jeans strength as it was a psychic attack against arguably the worlds most powerful psychic. He then tried to power up by feeding upon the psychic energy of the dreamers around him. Now the way it reads to me with him then surrounded by the various different "Jeans" was that she blocked him from consuming that psychic energy and banished him. Its a strong showing but it actually makes sense, much more so than Hulk, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Moon Knight... etc... etc, beating him, which they have all done.

[Mercury]

EDIT: Actually, never mind. I shouldn't have written that. 😂

[Mercury]

The angst over Nightmare being defeated by an Omega level Telepath in a telepathic battle (that he was clearly unprepared for, while basically out on a joyride) seems to overlook that he has also been defeated by Captain America and Sharon Carter while trying to "corrupt the American Dream" and once by Stan Lee who repeatedly bludgeoned him with a tennis racket. Somehow, I don't think this issue has really done all that much to harm his status.

A bit more seriously, people in a rush to condemn the issue seem to think that just because a character is capable of achieving X levels of power, that any time they don't bring all of it to bear means they were somehow out of character. In a fight one of the most important tactics is to catch the enemy by surprise. Nightmare wasn't enacting some devious plot to take out the X-Men, he was taking an opportunistic lark to Earth and got caught by surprise. He was able to launch a heavy attack but it played into Jeans strength as it was a psychic attack against arguably the worlds most powerful psychic. He then tried to power up by feeding upon the psychic energy of the dreamers around him. Now the way it reads to me with him then surrounded by the various different "Jeans" was that she blocked him from consuming that psychic energy and banished him. Its a strong showing but it actually makes sense, much more so than Hulk, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Moon Knight... etc... etc, beating him, which they have all done.

Excellent points. 🙏🏼

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Overthinking this. This is about scenery-chewing and reliving her Jeen Glory Days.

Anyway. Whether Duggan's current use of the cast is great or not-so-great is obviously up for debate, but folks wouldn't actually object that much over the current Power Rankings' general thrust, right? For instance:

Tier 1:
Marvel Girl: Pretty much her own MVP issue, always been given something plot-meaningful to do so far, villains praising her just because (lololololol). *Significantly* ahead of the pack.

Tier 2:
Synch: Issue #3's MVP, ongoing character arc/presence. On the quiet side, but solid overall.
Polaris: Came out the gate strong, but not much to chew on ever since. Was tempted to put her in Tier 3, but she did stand next to Jean for a while in Issue #2. Really shouldn't be a Power Ranking metric and yet...

Tier 3:
Sunfire: Issue #2's MVP, but pretty much a non-entity in literally ever other scene.
Cyclops: In a weird place. More speech bubbles than Polaris/Synch/Sunfire, hasn't given orders that didn't make sense, has an obvious personal arc upcoming, but holy hell has he been the team's Distressed Dude so far.

Tier 4:
Rogue: She's... there.
Wolverine: Sliced Synch's finger open.

Any major objections?

[Edit]: Had interverted Synch and Sunfire's MVP Issues.