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  1. #46
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I feel dirty doing anything close to praise regarding CC, but Kaine saw many alternate realities when Ben destroyed the world with his plan and he was still the same evil asshole once that story was over, so i can see why Kaine wouldn't be willing to give him a chance. Then again, i didn't read PAD Scarlet Spider (is on the list) so i don't know how Kaine or Ben acted.
    To make a long and painful story as short as I can manage, 27 torturous deaths and resurrections not only f***ed Ben up in the brain, they warped and corroded his very soul, as explained by Death herself when she first appeared to Ben in issues 6-7 of PAD's Scarlet Spider. It was Ben's willingness to sacrifice himself for Kaine and a little girl who had just died senselessly at the hands of some random jerks with guns that persuaded Death to give him a second chance, fixing his physical degeneration scars and restoring Kaine (and the little girl) to life. However, Ben's degeneration scars started returning when he began backsliding by beating a man almost to death; as reprehensible as that man was for deliberately stealing food and other aid that would have gone to the struggling people of Las Vegas after it got blasted in Secret Empire for the sake of spiting his sister, he was still a powerless human up against someone with all of Spider-Man's powers and almost none of Spider-Man's moral compass left, so that dinged Ben's karma pretty badly.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #47
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I feel dirty doing anything close to praise regarding CC, but Kaine saw many alternate realities when Ben destroyed the world with his plan and he was still the same evil asshole once that story was over, so i can see why Kaine wouldn't be willing to give him a chance. Then again, i didn't read PAD Scarlet Spider (is on the list) so i don't know how Kaine or Ben acted.
    If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he handled Ben worse than Slott did in Clone Conspiracy, and relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus. His writing for Kaine wasn't much better, especially after Kaine's own Scarlet Spider series and his appearance in Clone Conspiracy and the related spin-offs. It felt like Peter David either didn't have a feel for either character, or didn't care and just wanted to tell his own story.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    To make a long and painful story as short as I can manage, 27 torturous deaths and resurrections not only f***ed Ben up in the brain, they warped and corroded his very soul, as explained by Death herself when she first appeared to Ben in issues 6-7 of PAD's Scarlet Spider. It was Ben's willingness to sacrifice himself for Kaine and a little girl who had just died senselessly at the hands of some random jerks with guns that persuaded Death to give him a second chance, fixing his physical degeneration scars and restoring Kaine (and the little girl) to life. However, Ben's degeneration scars started returning when he began backsliding by beating a man almost to death; as reprehensible as that man was for deliberately stealing food and other aid that would have gone to the struggling people of Las Vegas after it got blasted in Secret Empire for the sake of spiting his sister, he was still a powerless human up against someone with all of Spider-Man's powers and almost none of Spider-Man's moral compass left, so that dinged Ben's karma pretty badly.
    Man, Ben really sh*tsandwich if all of this is true. Thanks for the info.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he handled Ben worse than Slott did in Clone Conspiracy, and relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus. His writing for Kaine wasn't much better, especially after Kaine's own Scarlet Spider series and his appearance in Clone Conspiracy and the related spin-offs. It felt like Peter David either didn't have a feel for either character, or didn't care and just wanted to tell his own story.
    An smart person would listen to you...sadly i'm not one, so i'm probably gonna read it anyway lol.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  5. #50
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    An smart person would listen to you...sadly i'm not one, so i'm probably gonna read it anyway lol.
    I already read it. Mostly because if it has Spider-Man or any related characters in it, I will read it.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #51
    Wig Over The Hoodie Style IamnotJudasTraveller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Man, Ben really sh*tsandwich if all of this is true. Thanks for the info.
    For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.
    Discovering/CONFESSING! the nature of evil... one retcon at a time.

  7. #52
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamnotJudasTraveller View Post
    For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.
    Pretty much, yeah. That would set off anyone with a conscience, and as damaged as Ben was back then, he did have a bit of a conscience left.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #53
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he...relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus.
    Gimmick or not, I loved Ben and Kaine meeting the Slingers. Best part of the whole series. Gimme them all on a team, Marvel!

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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamnotJudasTraveller View Post
    For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.
    I don’t know why he accepted the assignment. PAD is still a pretty high-profile writer, even if he’s lost a little heat since the 90s. He could probably have any number of books. But he accepted one for a character he didn’t like or care about. It’s like an A-list (or at least formerly A-list, and now very high B-list) movie star agreeing to star in a movie that he didn’t like the script for.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Gimmick or not, I loved Ben and Kaine meeting the Slingers. Best part of the whole series. Gimme them all on a team, Marvel!

    -Pav, who would settle for Johnny as Ben's sidekick...
    The issues from Ben confronting Death to the end of the Slingers arc with spoilers:
    Cyber revealed as Hornet
    end of spoilers are undoubtedly the best issues, and the only ones I might revisit (and even they arenít perfect with some panels not depicting what the writing is indicating, and some weird story beats like the stuff with the demonic redhead girl.)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    I don’t know why he accepted the assignment. PAD is still a pretty high-profile writer, even if he’s lost a little heat since the 90s. He could probably have any number of books. But he accepted one for a character he didn’t like or care about. It’s like an A-list (or at least formerly A-list, and now very high B-list) movie star agreeing to star in a movie that he didn’t like the script for.
    Didn't he need the work around that time due to his issues with the IRS? He owed nearly $90k I think.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Didn't he need the work around that time due to his issues with the IRS? He owed nearly $90k I think.
    I don’t know. I guess that’s one reason to accept an assignment. PAD often inserts his real-world frustrations into his writing, so I’m surprised he didn’t include some panels with Ben punching out an IRS agent.

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