Looks like it may not end well for Ben Reilly

[Huntsman Spider]

I feel dirty doing anything close to praise regarding CC, but Kaine saw many alternate realities when Ben destroyed the world with his plan and he was still the same evil ******* once that story was over, so i can see why Kaine wouldn't be willing to give him a chance. Then again, i didn't read PAD Scarlet Spider (is on the list) so i don't know how Kaine or Ben acted.

To make a long and painful story as short as I can manage, 27 torturous deaths and resurrections not only f***ed Ben up in the brain, they warped and corroded his very soul, as explained by Death herself when she first appeared to Ben in issues 6-7 of PAD's Scarlet Spider. It was Ben's willingness to sacrifice himself for Kaine and a little girl who had just died senselessly at the hands of some random jerks with guns that persuaded Death to give him a second chance, fixing his physical degeneration scars and restoring Kaine (and the little girl) to life. However, Ben's degeneration scars started returning when he began backsliding by beating a man almost to death; as reprehensible as that man was for deliberately stealing food and other aid that would have gone to the struggling people of Las Vegas after it got blasted in Secret Empire for the sake of spiting his sister, he was still a powerless human up against someone with all of Spider-Man's powers and almost none of Spider-Man's moral compass left, so that dinged Ben's karma pretty badly.

[SpideyClone]

I feel dirty doing anything close to praise regarding CC, but Kaine saw many alternate realities when Ben destroyed the world with his plan and he was still the same evil ******* once that story was over, so i can see why Kaine wouldn't be willing to give him a chance. Then again, i didn't read PAD Scarlet Spider (is on the list) so i don't know how Kaine or Ben acted.

If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he handled Ben worse than Slott did in Clone Conspiracy, and relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus. His writing for Kaine wasn't much better, especially after Kaine's own Scarlet Spider series and his appearance in Clone Conspiracy and the related spin-offs. It felt like Peter David either didn't have a feel for either character, or didn't care and just wanted to tell his own story.

[TheCape]

To make a long and painful story as short as I can manage, 27 torturous deaths and resurrections not only f***ed Ben up in the brain, they warped and corroded his very soul, as explained by Death herself when she first appeared to Ben in issues 6-7 of PAD's Scarlet Spider. It was Ben's willingness to sacrifice himself for Kaine and a little girl who had just died senselessly at the hands of some random jerks with guns that persuaded Death to give him a second chance, fixing his physical degeneration scars and restoring Kaine (and the little girl) to life. However, Ben's degeneration scars started returning when he began backsliding by beating a man almost to death; as reprehensible as that man was for deliberately stealing food and other aid that would have gone to the struggling people of Las Vegas after it got blasted in Secret Empire for the sake of spiting his sister, he was still a powerless human up against someone with all of Spider-Man's powers and almost none of Spider-Man's moral compass left, so that dinged Ben's karma pretty badly.

Man, Ben really sh*tsandwich if all of this is true. Thanks for the info.

[TheCape]

If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he handled Ben worse than Slott did in Clone Conspiracy, and relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus. His writing for Kaine wasn't much better, especially after Kaine's own Scarlet Spider series and his appearance in Clone Conspiracy and the related spin-offs. It felt like Peter David either didn't have a feel for either character, or didn't care and just wanted to tell his own story.

An smart person would listen to you...sadly i'm not one, so i'm probably gonna read it anyway lol.

[Huntsman Spider]

An smart person would listen to you...sadly i'm not one, so i'm probably gonna read it anyway lol.

I already read it. Mostly because if it has Spider-Man or any related characters in it, I will read it.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Man, Ben really sh*tsandwich if all of this is true. Thanks for the info.

For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.

[Huntsman Spider]

For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.

Pretty much, yeah. That would set off anyone with a conscience, and as damaged as Ben was back then, he did have a bit of a conscience left.

[Pav]

If anything I would recommend not reading PAD's Scarlet Spider. I think he...relied on gimmicks like Margo Chandler/Death and the Slingers which to me detracted from Ben's focus.

Gimmick or not, I loved Ben and Kaine meeting the Slingers. Best part of the whole series. Gimme them all on a team, Marvel!

-Pav, who would settle for Johnny as Ben's sidekick...

[HypnoHustler]

For what's worth - and I also am not fond of PAD's direction for Ben though I do think the middle has some good stuff with heroic Ben sprinkled here and there - the guy gloats, to Ben's face, about letting little kids starve if that lets him get one over on his sister so there is also that. PAD was stuck between what he wanted to tell and what Ben's fans wanted to read and in the end he won neither side.

I don’t know why he accepted the assignment. PAD is still a pretty high-profile writer, even if he’s lost a little heat since the 90s. He could probably have any number of books. But he accepted one for a character he didn’t like or care about. It’s like an A-list (or at least formerly A-list, and now very high B-list) movie star agreeing to star in a movie that he didn’t like the script for.

[HypnoHustler]

Gimmick or not, I loved Ben and Kaine meeting the Slingers. Best part of the whole series. Gimme them all on a team, Marvel!

-Pav, who would settle for Johnny as Ben's sidekick...

The issues from Ben confronting Death to the end of the Slingers arc with spoilers:

Cyber revealed as Hornet

end of spoilers are undoubtedly the best issues, and the only ones I might revisit (and even they aren’t perfect with some panels not depicting what the writing is indicating, and some weird story beats like the stuff with the demonic redhead girl.)

[Somecrazyaussie]

I don’t know why he accepted the assignment. PAD is still a pretty high-profile writer, even if he’s lost a little heat since the 90s. He could probably have any number of books. But he accepted one for a character he didn’t like or care about. It’s like an A-list (or at least formerly A-list, and now very high B-list) movie star agreeing to star in a movie that he didn’t like the script for.

Didn't he need the work around that time due to his issues with the IRS? He owed nearly $90k I think.

[HypnoHustler]

Didn't he need the work around that time due to his issues with the IRS? He owed nearly $90k I think.

I don’t know. I guess that’s one reason to accept an assignment. PAD often inserts his real-world frustrations into his writing, so I’m surprised he didn’t include some panels with Ben punching out an IRS agent.

[classicgmer]

I think that remains to be seen. Dude was pretty bloodthirsty in PAD's run.

-Pav, who does hope he shows up eventually during Beyond...

He'll still use some morally questionable methods to achieve whatever goals he needs to (threatening to waterboard the Scientist lady who worked with Ben at New U with boiling water when in actuality it was dry ice) and will hurt people very badly if pushed that far but I think he's made some definite strides towards becoming a better person.



His mistake in PAD's Scarlet Spider run was that rather than trying to simply bring Ben to justice he set out to kill him because it was personal to him but even then he initially gave Ben a reprieve from death until he thought Ben had killed that little girl.


To me he serves basically the same role in Spider-Man's corner of the universe that Wolverine does in the X-men's.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Didn't he need the work around that time due to his issues with the IRS? He owed nearly $90k I think.

Yep. He was maybe on issue #2 or something when the IRS news hit.

[Lukmendes]

I feel dirty doing anything close to praise regarding CC, but Kaine saw many alternate realities when Ben destroyed the world with his plan and he was still the same evil ******* once that story was over, so i can see why Kaine wouldn't be willing to give him a chance. Then again, i didn't read PAD Scarlet Spider (is on the list) so i don't know how Kaine or Ben acted.

Kaine was a bit too violent, he said he was willing to give Ben a chance to at least save that girl, but once the girl died, he tried to kill Ben as he said he would, but it's a bit too callous, even if it's understandable considering, y'know, the whole Jackal nonsense.

To make a long and painful story as short as I can manage, 27 torturous deaths and resurrections not only f***ed Ben up in the brain, they warped and corroded his very soul, as explained by Death herself when she first appeared to Ben in issues 6-7 of PAD's Scarlet Spider. It was Ben's willingness to sacrifice himself for Kaine and a little girl who had just died senselessly at the hands of some random jerks with guns that persuaded Death to give him a second chance, fixing his physical degeneration scars and restoring Kaine (and the little girl) to life. However, Ben's degeneration scars started returning when he began backsliding by beating a man almost to death; as reprehensible as that man was for deliberately stealing food and other aid that would have gone to the struggling people of Las Vegas after it got blasted in Secret Empire for the sake of spiting his sister, he was still a powerless human up against someone with all of Spider-Man's powers and almost none of Spider-Man's moral compass left, so that dinged Ben's karma pretty badly.

Thinking of it, wonder if someone in Krakoa broke Ben's record of number of deaths by now, also wonder if Death lost interest after Ben .

An smart person would listen to you...sadly i'm not one, so i'm probably gonna read it anyway lol.

Just remember that the ending isn't canon, since Ben becomes evil again and kills Kaine, but then Spider-Geddon has Ben being good and Kaine's still alive.

As for the story itself, I honestly didn'yt really know Ben's character back then, and still got bored of the comic, the whole "Will Ben become good or evil?" **** was half assed.