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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    I don't read X-Force, but it was definitely fridging. Percy created a character just so he could kill her in a shocking moment and further another character story. It's basically the definition of fridging.

    Also, I think female character should be allowed to be evil. Female villains have a tendency to be revealed as just misguided or victims. Look at Emma and Poison Ivy for example.

    I love Emma, and was introduced to the character when she was already on the good side, but why her and not Shaw becoming good? Same thing for Poison Ivy, she used to be this cool villaness who would take over men's minds and just kill them and Batman would show up to defeat her, now she is most of the time just Harley Quinn's girlfriend.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    If they want to go the "fridging" route they just need to expand to the guys as well. The thing is when you refer to every death as "fridging" then there is no drama. In the world of heroes there is going to be death. And victims. It also depends on how its written. Writer intent is important. If you suspect there is something off about what Writer X is trying to convey then yeah, it can be problematic. If the writer has a history of only killing women for the character to feel pain then yeah, I can understand the frustration. That said, there are going to be people who die. Because that is what heroes are all about. Because a lot of times it's about saving lives. And sometimes you can't save all lives. Or there wouldn't be drama. The thing is if you are relying on death too much than that means you have run out of ideas too. I say expand the bodies to the males because superheroes without victims is next to impossible.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 10-14-2021 at 08:35 PM.
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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Well im just going to have to say i'm glad little miss shady was put on ice. I guess i'm okay with friding sometimes? I'm hoping nobody finds her under that remote hill.

    He killed the whole team.
    Omigosh! It was Wolverine that killed Jean, and perhaps the X-Men? Ahahahha!

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    How about when a male character is killed to further a female character's development, it goes both ways.
    Yes, but it doesn't happen with women all that much. Not She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Woman etc. I don't really recall, though. But I think if we want to go legit male fridging that would be more along the lines of sidekicks, family, friends, but that's usually only with male superheroes rather than female.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I don't read X-Force, but it was definitely fridging. Percy created a character just so he could kill her in a shocking moment and further another character story. It's basically the definition of fridging.

    Also, I think female character should be allowed to be evil. Female villains have a tendency to be revealed as just misguided or victims. Look at Emma and Poison Ivy for example.

    I love Emma, and was introduced to the character when she was already on the good side, but why her and not Shaw becoming good? Same thing for Poison Ivy, she used to be this cool villaness who would take over men's minds and just kill them and Batman would show up to defeat her, now she is most of the time just Harley Quinn's girlfriend.
    I think making Emma the victim of circumstance actually did a disservice to her as a woman more. She was already doing fine as a reformed villain. Instead, they made her a victim of THC. Women come in all forms, including evil forms. Women having to all be victims or harmless just does a disservice, I think, as I said. It takes women for granted.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 10-14-2021 at 09:32 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    This is, to an extent, why I would argue that there isn't a double-standard, and why the torture or killing of men to drive a female character's narrative doesn't garner the same attention: Because even though there are times it happens to male characters, the reality is that females are overwhelmingly the victims. While reducing any character to a plot device of this sort is inherently problematic, the reality is that women are far more likely to be considered "disposable" in this fashion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Fridging is also specifically when a character is killed off (or maimed, tortured, ect) for no other reason than to cause emotional pain to a different character. And while it does happen to male characters, it happens to female characters much, much more. I'd bet it happens to children more than adult male characters as well. Although someone dying in the backstory probably isn't technically fridging.

    If a character is killed off as part of their own story arc, then the follow up that deals with a friend/lover who survived isn't fridging, the dead character had their own story. Even if that death was stupid.

    Also, killing someone merely to establish a threat as being serious business isn't fridging either, that one is The Worf Effect (so named after a Star Trek character whose background as a supposed great warrior served to make the threat of the week look more threatening by how easily they disposed of the so called great warrior).

    Of course, it is possible for a death to fit into more than one category at a time.
    Again it's not about Women/men, it's main characters/side characters.For e.x. chuck was "fridged" in maze runner not because he's a male or female but because he's a side character.

    It's overwhelmingly female because a lot more female characters were side characters as compared to male ones.Which is being fixed.Asking comics to stop killing people will never happen, and characters death for the main character will always be something that happens no matter how well written.We just need more Female leads who headline there own story.


    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    If they want to go the "fridging" route they just need to expand to the guys as well. The thing is when you refer to every death as "fridging" then there is no drama. In the world of heroes there is going to be death. And victims. It also depends on how its written. Writer intent is important. If you suspect there is something off about what Writer X is trying to convey then yeah, it can be problematic. If the writer has a history of only killing women for the character to feel pain then yeah, I can understand the frustration. That said, there are going to be people who die. Because that is what heroes are all about. Because a lot of times it's about saving lives. And sometimes you can't save all lives. Or there wouldn't be drama. The thing is if you are relying on death too much than that means you have run out of ideas too. I say expand the bodies to the males because superheroes without victims is next to impossible.
    This, but instead of expanding male victims just make more female leads.2 wrongs don't make a right.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    ??? Shaw got into that situation as a result of his own actions. He didn't get beat the hell up to impact Emma or Kate, he got beaten to hell as a direct result of his attempts to permanently murder Kate and get rid of Emma
    I was responding to jwatsons position that female characters most times don't just die or are killed for the sake but to have impact on the male characters (among others) and going by that logical artistic methodology Kate died just to have Shaw depowered,slapped, losing an eye to sit next to Emma on the council like nothing profoundly egregious happened..Emma,Storm and Kate would rather have him there like some court jester right? I don't know if you lost me in translation

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again it's not about Women/men, it's main characters/side characters.For e.x. chuck was "fridged" in maze runner not because he's a male or female but because he's a side character.

    It's overwhelmingly female because a lot more female characters were side characters as compared to male ones.Which is being fixed.Asking comics to stop killing people will never happen, and characters death for the main character will always be something that happens no matter how well written.We just need more Female leads who headline there own story.




    This, but instead of expanding male victims just make more female leads.2 wrongs don't make a right.
    It's already been established that it has NOTHING to do with "main character/side character." Major characters can ABSOLUTELY be fridged. As already pointed out, Vanessa was one of the central characters in Deadpool, and she was fridged at the beginning of the second film; Her death wasn't about her own journey, it was entirely about giving Wade an emotional arc for the second movie.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It's already been established that it has NOTHING to do with "main character/side character." Major characters can ABSOLUTELY be fridged. As already pointed out, Vanessa was one of the central characters in Deadpool, and she was fridged at the beginning of the second film; Her death wasn't about her own journey, it was entirely about giving Wade an emotional arc for the second movie.
    Vanessa is a side character.....

    I think you are under the misconception that when I say side characters I mean characters w/ incredibly small roles, I don't.It has nothing to do w/ popularity as well.

    In a solo series like Spider-man, even someone like MJ is a side character.Same as Deadpool is a solo movie, Vanessa is a side character in that.
    In a team series anyone not consistently part of the roster is a side character.

    And side characters will always be used to boost the main characters story.

    Should I use caps to help convey the point better?

    "Her Death wasn't about her own journey, it was about Wade's arc".No sh*t sherlock(jk), it's his movie.Steve was killed to give Diana motivation in her movie, same w/ Uncle Ben, Jason Todd(for a long time)[also a good example that the dead man defrosting thing isn't a 100% true],Nightwing(offscreen) in Snyder-verse,Naomi's husband in Death Note,The kid in quite place, Pa Kent in MoS, Pa kent in Injustice movie that came out like a week ago etc.

    All of them are males but more importantly are/were side characters in the stories.

    I should note that there are levels to how important a side character is, but at the end they all bend for the story of the main character just to different degrees.

    "It should be noted that while the term most commonly applies to a male character's female love interest, it can actually be used in numerous different scenarios......"

    Female LOVE INTERESTS, usually ones that lack any depth like Kayla which is how many were written earlier.You are focusing on the gender instead of focusing on the role said female character is playing.

    I'm not denying it happens more to females btw, but it's because they are in the side character/ love interests.

    Also another thing, the dead man defrosting thing is kinda for both genders now.Diana died recently and came back extremely soon and w/ no change.Same w/ characters like Stephanie Brown whose death hold nothing over her.I'm sure there are more examples but these are the ones that come to min.Also many male characters Like Ben Reilly and Jason Todd were vastly affected by their deaths.
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 10-15-2021 at 07:17 AM.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It's already been established that it has NOTHING to do with "main character/side character." Major characters can ABSOLUTELY be fridged. As already pointed out, Vanessa was one of the central characters in Deadpool, and she was fridged at the beginning of the second film; Her death wasn't about her own journey, it was entirely about giving Wade an emotional arc for the second movie.
    100% this. Fridging is killing any character for the sole means of providing an emotional/psychological arc for another character and giving them a journey. Vanessa (who I still wish was revealed as a mutant since she's based on Copycat) was killed to do that for Wade. And I don't view Vanessa as a side character. She's a main character as she's the love interest for Wade. It so happened he managed to save her in the end, but still this happens more in movies these days than comics. The little son in A Quiet Place who dies quickly in the first movie was fridged to give the other family members trauma and arcs.

  9. #69
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    Ooh, can a kid be fridged?

    It's not like you can give a little child much personality, depth, drive and motivation right?

    So it's not like you can rob them of that?

    According to the "fridging rules", if a character has depth drive and motivation in their own death/story then they can't be fridged... right? How do you give a little kid all that in their death scene?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Ooh, can a kid be fridged?

    It's not like you can give a little child much personality, depth, drive and motivation right?

    So it's not like you can rob them of that?

    According to the "fridging rules", if a character has in their own death/story then they can't be fridged... right? How do you give a little kid all that in their death scene?
    Depends on the age of said kid, young teens(and even younger than that) can be given depth drive and motivation.

    Also "Fridging is often given a very negative connotation as it is all too often a hallmark of supremely lazy writing — quickly hurting or killing an established character as "cheap anger" for the protagonist"

    From TVtropes about fridging, the entire page says nothing about popularity and depth as well and mentions it's not exclusive to just females as well.

    I guess that depends on what makes a character established? Because even killing of a stranger can be used to get "cheap anger" from many protagonist specially in the superhero Genre.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Depends on the age of said kid, young teens(and even younger than that) can be given depth drive and motivation.

    Also "Fridging is often given a very negative connotation as it is all too often a hallmark of supremely lazy writing quickly hurting or killing an established character as "cheap anger" for the protagonist"

    From TVtropes about fridging, the entire page says nothing about popularity and depth as well and mentions it's not exclusive to just females as well.

    I guess that depends on what makes a character established? Because even killing of a stranger can be used to get "cheap anger" from many protagonist specially in the superhero Genre.
    Yeah, while more prevalent with female characters it's definitely not exclusive to them. Both Bucky and Jason Todd were examples for decades and Uncle Ben is the Patron Saint of Fridging.

  12. #72
    Fantastic Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Yeah, while more prevalent with female characters it's definitely not exclusive to them. Both Bucky and Jason Todd were examples for decades and Uncle Ben is the Patron Saint of Fridging.
    This fridging sounds to much like the mary sue argument. Its just a way to box in a writer so they have to avoid certain things because it is considered a trope. And by the way tropes can be awesome if done right. Otherwise, they would never become tropes.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    This fridging sounds to much like the mary sue argument. Its just a way to box in a writer so they have to avoid certain things because it is considered a trope. And by the way tropes can be awesome if done right. Otherwise, they would never become tropes.
    Agreed, but whenever there's a (female) side character death people still loose their sh*t.Stories like Death of Jean Dewolfe, Killing Joke, Death of Gwen Stacy, Death of Elektra, Guardian devil(Death of Karen Page),If this be my destiny etc[These are just from my 2-3 fav characters]. would be heavily criticized if they came out today.The thing is people are mad about non/weakly-established characters like Kayla and these are "fridging" of fan fav characters and are for the hero's/main story.

    I feel writers should be called out on using tropes as a cheap substitute for good writing/storytelling but using tropes in a well written story should be accepted.I think half of the writers are too scared to even attempt a story no matter how good if it includes a trope a piece of fandom is against.

  14. #74
    Mighty Member Steroid's Avatar
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    I absolutely detest the term fridging. When Gail Simone coined the phrase it just came across as a way to single out comics. When I was a kid my mom loved the Lifetime Network which was basically a network dedicated to male fridging. Watch one of their movies and tell me I'm wrong. Point being is that comics seems to be the only medium where there's this outcry for this trope.

  15. #75
    Fantastic Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    I absolutely detest the term fridging. When Gail Simone coined the phrase it just came across as a way to single out comics. When I was a kid my mom loved the Lifetime Network which was basically a network dedicated to male fridging. Watch one of their movies and tell me I'm wrong. Point being is that comics seems to be the only medium where there's this outcry for this trope.
    Because the comic fandom is so full of gatekeeping. Any time a writer does anything that rocks the boat they are accused of every ill conceived intent under the sun all so the accusers can justify why it is “bad writing”. To be fair to comic fans, you see this in movies (star wars, harry potter, whatever else) and video games as well (last of us 2 comes to mind). People speak in hyperbole as a means to be taken seriously because apparently just not liking something is not good enough because we have to completely shut the creative team down. Full stop. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200$. Claremont would have been crucified by the twitter mob if it was around during his time. And just because the mob agrees with you (or me for that matter) does not make it right. Grabbing the pitchforks and going after people you don’t agree with is the oldest trope in human history.

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