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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    That does not make it right.
    So analyzing media and pointing out problemetic stuff is a crime now lol?

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    LMAO yeah, and rockslide was the definition of fridging and the "kill a character to establish threat" trope, whatever that is called.
    Rockslide's death doesn't fit neatly into any category. His death isn't used as to develop anyone else, so it doesn't quite fit the fridging trope. He isn't portrayed as a powerhouse or a badass in combat, so the Worf Effect doesn't quite apply either.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Rockslide's death doesn't fit neatly into any category. His death isn't used as to develop anyone else, so it doesn't quite fit the fridging trope. He isn't portrayed as a powerhouse or a badass in combat, so the Worf Effect doesn't quite apply either.
    His death is used as cheap anger/sadness for Lorna, heck even for Emma. "'Fridging' is the practice of killing off or hurting a minor character in order to motivate or torture a main character."
    This is def. fridging and better than many examples in this thread, y'all will do everything to invalidate male characters being misused, huh?

  4. #94
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    His death is used as cheap anger/sadness for Lorna, heck even for Emma. "'Fridging' is the practice of killing off or hurting a minor character in order to motivate or torture a main character."
    This is def. fridging and better than many examples in this thread, y'all will do everything to invalidate male characters being misused, huh?
    Spidey, you know that I don't take male characters being misused/abused lightly. But the trope has a definition and that definition limits that the character that is killed off functions as a romantic interest of another character. We can expand that beyond a female being killed off, sure. But I think we must draw the line at the romantic element [EDIT: or, at the very least, a very close friendship or family bond].

    Because if we expand the definition too much, at some point, the concept doesn't mean anything anymore. After all, if we get to the point where we call whatever death that affects someone as fridging, every death will (or should) be fridging.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 10-17-2021 at 01:27 AM.

  5. #95
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    When has the trope ever been limited to romantic interests? In the 80s no one had ever thought to use Barbara Gordon as a romantic interest for Bruce Wayne or her own father. Nowadays that's an actual thing, unfortunately, but it wasn't when The Killing Joke first came out.

    Part of the problem with event comics is that there is an assumption that characters have to die in them. Someone had to die to set up the stakes that death in Otherworld was permanent in X of Swords. Second Coming made a plot point that the enemy was systematically killing off the teleporters to ensure the mutants would be trapped. Nightcrawler got a heroic sacrifice but the others were unceremoniously killed except for Pixie and Magik. I guess I feel like these sorts of deaths are closer to deaths in Game of Thrones than to typical fridging, but that doesn't necessarily make them good.
    Last edited by sunofdarkchild; 10-17-2021 at 01:56 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Spidey, you know that I don't take male characters being misused/abused lightly. But the trope has a definition and that definition limits that the character that is killed off functions as a romantic interest of another character. We can expand that beyond a female being killed off, sure. But I think we must draw the line at the romantic element [EDIT: or, at the very least, a very close friendship or family bond].

    Because if we expand the definition too much, at some point, the concept doesn't mean anything anymore. After all, if we get to the point where we call whatever death that affects someone as fridging, every death will (or should) be fridging.
    Every definition I've seen/posted here says it's a minor/side/supporting character, many people here say it's for established characters and others says it's for the small ones.I agree that expanding the definition makes the concept meaningless, but the fact there are so many people who interpret it so differently means it already is.And I also agree that every death can be considered fridging w/ the expanded definitions, hence why it's already lost all it's meaning.

    "Fridging is a common practice in comics and general media where another character exists to die or be hurt for the sole purpose of furthering another character's plot. Though the term was originally coined by Gail Simone in 1999 as "Women in refrigerators" (In reference to a plotline where the green lantern found her newly introduced girlfriend sliced up in a fridge) though it may still refer to the same mistreatment of female characters, it has become less gendered over time and the definition has become less niche to involve somewhat characterized cast members as well as new ones.

    Some prominent examples of fridging include:
    Uncle ben
    every single character to date deadpool
    every single orphaned characters' parents"

    -Urban dictionary, seems the most accurate about the concept as a whole IMO.It's not just limited to romantic interests or close friends/family, it's not just about female characters, and it varies from very well established characters(Barbara) to ones we barely get to see(Uncle Ben).

    It's so wide, and thus so common that complaining about it specially for one specific type(like just for female love interests) makes no sense since deaths for motivation is a very common storytelling device and has nothing to do w/ misogny(the death's thing, some decisions on said deaths have been due to this ofc).
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 10-17-2021 at 02:04 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Every definition I've seen/posted here says it's a minor/side/supporting character, many people here say it's for established characters and others says it's for the small ones.I agree that expanding the definition makes the concept meaningless, but the fact there are so many people who interpret it so differently means it already is.And I also agree that every death can be considered fridging w/ the expanded definitions, hence why it's already lost all it's meaning.

    "Fridging is a common practice in comics and general media where another character exists to die or be hurt for the sole purpose of furthering another character's plot. Though the term was originally coined by Gail Simone in 1999 as "Women in refrigerators" (In reference to a plotline where the green lantern found her newly introduced girlfriend sliced up in a fridge) though it may still refer to the same mistreatment of female characters, it has become less gendered over time and the definition has become less niche to involve somewhat characterized cast members as well as new ones.

    Some prominent examples of fridging include:
    Uncle ben
    every single character to date deadpool
    every single orphaned characters' parents"

    -Urban dictionary, seems the most accurate about the concept as a whole IMO.It's not just limited to romantic interests or close friends/family, it's not just about female characters, and it varies from very well established characters(Barbara) to ones we barely get to see(Uncle Ben).

    It's so wide, and thus so common that complaining about it specially for one specific type(like just for female love interests) makes no sense since deaths for motivation is a very common storytelling device and has nothing to do w/ misogny(the death's thing, some decisions on said deaths have been due to this ofc).
    Well, historically, the term was coined to refer to females only. Since it doesn't happen only to female characters, I think it's okay to expand it. But we still need to have some criteria here, because senseless deaths happen all the time and death affects characters all the time. If that's all it takes, most of the deaths would be cases fridging.

    Basically, what I am saying is that definition shouldn't be about main or side characters (because that would exclude deaths of main characters who could be considered fridging), males or females. Here's what I am proposing:

    1) The death [EDIT: or ordeal] is meaningless for the character who dies (= it's not about them). It's only significant to drive another *character's* development.
    2) Those characters must have been in a significant relationship: often romantic, but very close friendship [EDIT: or mentor and pupil] or familial bond work too.


    EDIT: By this definition, death/ordeal to portray that a certain situation is really dangerous, for instance, would *not* be fridging by itself. It would only become fridging if it also happened to drive another character into an action (or even change in overall behaviour) because of the death/ordeal.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 10-17-2021 at 02:37 AM.

  8. #98
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I'm curious as where most people draw the line for fridging. I think it's impossible for a character like Jean Grey to be a victim of this, she clearly serves more of a purpose than to advance someone else's story. A character like Kayla, I think could go either way. She did have some development prior to her death, but it remains to be seen if she will go into resurrection protocols and continue to be a part of Colossus's life. Even if she stays dead, which seems unlikely in this era, how much of a character arc does a person need before its just the end of their story and not "fridging" (I really don't like that term, it sounds so awkward).
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  9. #99
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I'm curious as where most people draw the line for fridging. I think it's impossible for a character like Jean Grey to be a victim of this, she clearly serves more of a purpose than to advance someone else's story. A character like Kayla, I think could go either way. She did have some development prior to her death, but it remains to be seen if she will go into resurrection protocols and continue to be a part of Colossus's life. Even if she stays dead, which seems unlikely in this era, how much of a character arc does a person need before its just the end of their story and not "fridging" (I really don't like that term, it sounds so awkward).
    I think Jean's death in the DPS is clearly *not* a case of fridging: it's about her sacrifice, her heroic moment. If affects the characters around her because she was loved, so it would obviously have an effect on them.

    Jean's death in Morrison's run? Well... I think you can argue both ways.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Well, historically, the term was coined to refer to females only. Since it doesn't happen only to female characters, I think it's okay to expand it. But we still need to have some criteria here, because senseless deaths happen all the time and death affects characters all the time. If that's all it takes, most of the deaths would be cases fridging.

    Basically, what I am saying is that definition shouldn't be about main or side characters (because that would exclude deaths of main characters who could be considered fridging), males or females. Here's what I am proposing:

    1) The death [EDIT: or ordeal] is meaningless for the character who dies (= it's not about them). It's only significant to drive another *character's* development.
    2) Those characters must have been in a significant relationship: often romantic, but very close friendship [EDIT: or mentor and pupil] or familial bond work too.


    EDIT: By this definition, death/ordeal to portray that a certain situation is really dangerous, for instance, would *not* be fridging by itself. It would only become fridging if it also happened to drive another character into an action (or even change in overall behaviour) because of the death/ordeal.
    I agree w/ all of this, but most definitions don't not to mention people's perception on this trope.So idk what to do now, can we just agree that this is the criteria or.......

    Also where do you stand on the established character route, how big or small should the character to be to consider it fridging or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I'm curious as where most people draw the line for fridging. I think it's impossible for a character like Jean Grey to be a victim of this, she clearly serves more of a purpose than to advance someone else's story. A character like Kayla, I think could go either way. She did have some development prior to her death, but it remains to be seen if she will go into resurrection protocols and continue to be a part of Colossus's life. Even if she stays dead, which seems unlikely in this era, how much of a character arc does a person need before its just the end of their story and not "fridging" (I really don't like that term, it sounds so awkward).
    " How much of a character arc does a person need before its just the end of their story and not "fridging" " This, I think Kayla lacked depth but was it enough?

    "(I really don't like that term, it sounds so awkward)"- Same

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I agree w/ all of this, but most definitions don't not to mention people's perception on this trope.So idk what to do now, can we just agree that this is the criteria or.......
    I think we have to agree on some criteria or we're doomed to be dismissive of each other's opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Also where do you stand on the established character route, how big or small should the character to be to consider it fridging or not.
    If you read my reply to Wolverine12, in post #99, you'll see that I don't think the role of the character who is fridged matters.

    Fridging usually happens when the male character is the protagonist and the female character (who dies/goes through the ordeal) has a supporting role. But I don't see why it has to be this way. A male character who is just as important as a female character could be killed off simply to drive a certain character development for her, right?

  12. #102
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I think Jean's death in the DPS is clearly *not* a case of fridging: it's about her sacrifice, her heroic moment. If affects the characters around her because she was loved, so it would obviously have an effect on them.

    Jean's death in Morrison's run? Well... I think you can argue both ways.
    In Morrison's run? I don't think there is any argument at all there, she had a full and complete arc, her death certainly wasn't used solely to advance Magneto or Scott's character. You could argue her death eventually led to Emma advancing as a character but that wasn't the only purpose.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    In Morrison's run? I don't think there is any argument at all there, she had a full and complete arc, her death certainly wasn't used solely to advance Magneto or Scott's character. You could argue her death eventually led to Emma advancing as a character but that wasn't the only purpose.
    Thanks for replying. I think all of your points are arguable, actually, not factual. But I respect your perspective and since I don't really want to get into this particular discussion, I'll leave it at that.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I think we have to agree on some criteria or we're doomed to be dismissive of each other's opinions.



    If you read my reply to Wolverine12, in post #99, you'll see that I don't think the role of the character who is fridged matters.

    Fridging usually happens when the male character is the protagonist and the female character (who dies/goes through the ordeal) has a supporting role. But I don't see why it has to be this way. A male character who is just as important as a female character could be killed off simply to drive a certain character development for her, right?
    You're not wrong, but for that everyone/most have to agree to said criteria.

    Agreed, but main characters are rarely if ever fridged.But you have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    In Morrison's run? I don't think there is any argument at all there, she had a full and complete arc, her death certainly wasn't used solely to advance Magneto or Scott's character. You could argue her death eventually led to Emma advancing as a character but that wasn't the only purpose.
    Yeah, I think that was her arc.Agency is was something that death did not lack.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    You're not wrong, but for that everyone/most have to agree to said criteria.

    Agreed, but main characters are rarely if ever fridged.But you have a point.
    I think my suggestion is general enough so we don't start nitpicking the gender or importance of the roles of the characters, but specific enough for the term to still mean something. I'm not saying it's perfect criteria, but it may help finding common ground between the posters easier, so they can discuss if fridging is getting popular again.

    I hope it's useful.

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