Why is fridging female characters popular again? (Spoilers)

[ZephyrSurf]

How about when a male character is killed to further a female character's development, it goes both ways. Also it seems we have reached a point where female characters must be treated with velvet gloves. They have to be written and presented a certain way, they cannot be shown to be needing help from a man, they cannot lose to a male character, can't be seen as less competent than a man, if they are a villain it is because they were the victim of a man in the past (Emma = Shaw, Harley = Joker) respectively. People call for more female villain characters in fiction but then criticize the villainous portrayal of said characters. Any valid criticism of female characters in general is met with cries of sexism, misogyny and patriarchy. Moira chose to keep herself hidden and out of the spotlight but Xavier and Magneto are seen as misogynistic for deliberately keeping her on the sidelines, despite it being her decision. Basically the default setting in pop culture is Male =bad, female = good. The fact is characters die in fiction both men and women, simply because a female character dies doesn't mean there is some anti-female agenda. Female characters don't always have to win or succeed in everything. Females are equal to males in both good and bad aspects, they can be as heroic, virtuous, powerful, inspiring and competent as any man. But they can also be as evil, vicious, vindictive, manipulative and destructive as any man also. But if the negative aspects are highlighted for story purposes it's seen as sexist. It goes both ways, not every female character's death is fridging.

fridging has nothing to do with gender. It's just its a trope that disproportionately impacts Female characters than male ones.

A male character can equally be fridged.

[Starchilde]

So what if in his solo, Wolverine had killed just Jean and not the whole team? Would that be fridging a popular character? We know she's not staying dead overall and that she's being well used by other writers on an often basis, but if her only purpose in the Wolverine comic was to die and send Wolverine on a hero's quest, it'd count?

In the scenario you proposed, I would say yes, specially if it's a Wolvie solo. Regarding Logan and Jean, I don't think Logan has fridged her in their 616 story, but there's a narrative where the trope of "Logan kills Jean" is used to stir pain and drama for Logan in some occasions. He was ready to kill Hope because of that same narrative, where he saw her as a mini Jean and Phoenix. Its like a trope that has been constructed for Logan around the burden of killing Jean but it's not exactly fridging. I'm not a fan of it.

[Askani's Flame]

Yeah I don't think Kayla was fridged. We would need to have more of a vested interest in her, her background, and her motivations. But she feels like she was designed for the sole purpose of dying, so that's not really fridging. Is it poor imagination and writing, sure. But I don't think it's killing a known character to give a male character a needed boost.

And Domino doesn't count as she was the major player in her story of her death, and her character received more of a spotlight than Piotr.

And yes, if Jean was the only person killed in that issue and it had an impact on the direction of the story or Wolverine specifically, it would be fridging.

[Spiderfan001]

If this happens so much please list some examples... You make it sound like Captain America, Wolverine and Superman get fridged and ignored...

I'll actually help with an example. Gambit. He always seems to get the short end of the stick so Rogue can shine.

Still for this to be an issue there must be lots of examples right?

It's more of a main vs side character thing and we just have more male main characters, which is being changed now.

There are double standards w/ male and female characters and hopefully they are fixed.One that comes to mind is male victims aren't ever cared for.Seriously Spider-man, Nightwing,etc.(I made a list, it was double digits male victims w/ many A listers) have been r*ped but no one cares.They even said it wasn't r*pe but just non-con...... this was a bi female writer and it's a modern story as well........

I think we're headed in a better direction in many of these problems(mostly females character ones but since they have more that makes sense) and hopefully it gets better.

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah I don't think Kayla was fridged. We would need to have more of a vested interest in her, her background, and her motivations. But she feels like she was designed for the sole purpose of dying, so that's not really fridging. Is it poor imagination and writing, sure. But I don't think it's killing a known character to give a male character a needed boost.

And Domino doesn't count as she was the major player in her story of her death, and her character received more of a spotlight than Piotr.

And yes, if Jean was the only person killed in that issue and it had an impact on the direction of the story or Wolverine specifically, it would be fridging.

All this.

And even if it was only Jean and none of the other members it still wouldn't matter because death itself doesn't.

Also almost every great story having a death involves fridging from Death of Gwen Stacy, Karen Page, Jean Dewolfe, ps4 May, pretty much all the origins of supes, Old man Logan, etc. So what death of a side character is not fridging?

[RamaBird]

All this.

And even if it was only Jean and none of the other members it still wouldn't matter because death itself doesn't.

Also almost every great story having a death involves fridging from Death of Gwen Stacy, Karen Page, Jean Dewolfe, ps4 May, pretty much all the origins of supes, Old man Logan, etc. So what death of a side character is not fridging?

I don't think any of those count. Gwen is super famous and has many stories outside her death. Even before her death she was fleshed out. And Old Man Logan? Think we already established that mass murders don't count as fridging. I'm not aware of the other females though since I'm only an X fan.

Kayla is def a fridging.

[Askani's Flame]

I don't think any of those count. Gwen is super famous and has many stories outside her death. Even before her death she was fleshed out. And Old Man Logan? Think we already established that mass murders don't count as fridging. I'm not aware of the other females though since I'm only an X fan.

Kayla is def a fridging.

Butterrum is more of fridge than Kayla lol

[FFJamie94]

I want to point out, fridging isn't inherently a bad thing, it was more of pointing out a trope that happens and is argued a lot in essay circles.

Over relying on it, like any trope, is where the problem is. I think killing Jean in a Wolverine mini isn't inherently problematic as we know she'll just return again in the next issue. You can say the problem is it's there to further Wolverine's development in his guilt, basically Jean being more of an object for Wolverine's story than her own.

Now, i'm going to say something contriversial here, but really, every character is a product in a story, existing only for the purpose of telling a particular story. The skill is disguising it as something else.

Fridging is only a problem when it keeps happening, And you do find the trope in a Host of media aimed at Men, it's just a quick way to cut to emotional development And further the story.
I think killing Jean And Kayla in one month, is a bit much even through they have different contexts (I don't know of Kayla is a Mutant or not), so I can see the problems with it.

I think it's an interesting trope to discuss, but sadly the discussion never goes further than the surface Level critques.

[sunofdarkchild]

Gwen Stacey I'd count as a fridging. She had no agency whatsoever. She got kidnapped off-panel, was unconscious for the entire time, and died without ever regaining consciousness. In the issue where she died she was a plot device and not a character.

Doug Ramsay was fridged. He did have a heroic sacrifice, but it happened because the creators found him boring and not because it had anything to do with his character arc. He and Rahne were suddenly in love just to make his death more tragic.

The Rosenberg Uncanny run is an interesting case study since all the characters who were killed were brought back very quickly for Krakoa. Rahne died off-panel, but what happened was shown in flashbacks. Roberto died in a side-book and his death was never mentioned in the main book. He sacrificed himself to restore Illyana to full power, and Illyana isn't shown mourning him at all. Only Dani mourns him for a couple of panels at the end.

[RamaBird]

Gwen Stacey I'd count as a fridging. She had no agency whatsoever. She got kidnapped off-panel, was unconscious for the entire time, and died without ever regaining consciousness. In the issue where she died she was a plot device and not a character.

Doug Ramsay was fridged. He did have a heroic sacrifice, but it happened because the creators found him boring and not because it had anything to do with his character arc. He and Rahne were suddenly in love just to make his death more tragic.

The Rosenberg Uncanny run is an interesting case study since all the characters who were killed were brought back very quickly for Krakoa. Rahne died off-panel, but what happened was shown in flashbacks. Roberto died in a side-book and his death was never mentioned in the main book. He sacrificed himself to restore Illyana to full power, and Illyana isn't shown mourning him at all. Only Dani mourns him for a couple of panels at the end.

Gwen had no agency in her death but at least she had agency before right? She had other stories outside of just dying so Peter could feel guilty.

And at least the Gwen story was popular, nobody cares about Rosenberg Uncanny cause it was bad writing and unpopular. So many died and not one was mourned. Only thing mourned there was good writing.

[Kingdom X]

It's more of a main vs side character thing and we just have more male main characters, which is being changed now.

There are double standards w/ male and female characters and hopefully they are fixed.One that comes to mind is male victims aren't ever cared for.Seriously Spider-man, Nightwing,etc.(I made a list, it was double digits male victims w/ many A listers) have been r*ped but no one cares.They even said it wasn't r*pe but just non-con...... this was a bi female writer and it's a modern story as well........

I think we're headed in a better direction in many of these problems(mostly females character ones but since they have more that makes sense) and hopefully it gets better.

I think that's largely why the trope is getting better. There are always going to be instances of side characters getting murked for main character angst but it used to be soooo disproportionate. There were also examples like Barbara Gordon or Black Canary where they were prominent characters in their own right but then got brutalized for Batman/Gordon/ Green Arrow angst. But again overall things are improving for the better!

I personally haven't read that Nightwing comic, but I've heard about the story. I'd say we wouldn't consider it fridging because he wasn't assaulted to further Starfire's development (for example). Still, it sounds like a gross storyline and even grosser that the writer wanted to downplay it.

[Spiderfan001]

I don't think any of those count. Gwen is super famous and has many stories outside her death. Even before her death she was fleshed out. And Old Man Logan? Think we already established that mass murders don't count as fridging. I'm not aware of the other females though since I'm only an X fan.

Kayla is def a fridging.

I agree, but as I said people would be more mad if that happened to a popular character and still call it friding.People call Gwen's death fridging even though she had agency before that.

I think that's largely why the trope is getting better. There are always going to be instances of side characters getting murked for main character angst but it used to be soooo disproportionate. There were also examples like Barbara Gordon or Black Canary where they were prominent characters in their own right but then got brutalized for Batman/Gordon/ Green Arrow angst. But again overall things are improving for the better!

I personally haven't read that Nightwing comic, but I've heard about the story. I'd say we wouldn't consider it fridging because he wasn't assaulted to further Starfire's development (for example). Still, it sounds like a gross storyline and even grosser that the writer wanted to downplay it.

Agreed, it's always gonna happen(side characters getting sacrificed for main character's story) but it's getting better.

And that example was to show that both male and female characters have tropes that need to be worked on(I feel very uncomfortable calling the lack of care of male victims in comics a trope but it really is).I don't think it's fridging as well, and atleast that would have a purpose.This benefits no characters at all.

[Husk]

Fridging doesn't require popularity of character or a long tenure.

It originated with Alexandra DeWitt because the sum total of her character was to be brutally murdered to give Green Lantern some angst.

Kayla is definitely fridging. Even if she was created with this role in mind, she was a character with no agency of her own and served only to create drama for Colossus. In fact, the lack of character beyond his story is exactly why she should be considered as fridged.

It happens less but if, to use the example above, Steve Trevor was killed to further Diana's story without the story also serving his own arc, he would be fridged. That is to say, he's minding his own business and completely disconnected from the story when her villain kills him. If he's part of the story and he chooses to make a sacrifice or falls in battle with his own big hero moment - it's not fridging.

Kayla was created to die so Colossus could have a storyline. It's fridging and lazy writing because it wasn't necessary to the plot. The drama could've stemmed from Colossus and Mikhail. Perry chose to have a new female character so Colossus could kill her for shock factor.

[jwatson]

I don't know to me it still seems like fridging hinges mostly on opinion. I mean i get the factual implication of because it happens more to females given the demographic of leads in comics, that it can give and should give the appearance of being a problem but in the sense that there needs to be more variety and diversity in what is offered so it seems more like something that just sometimes happens. I mean in essence that is life, somebody dies everyday so whats to say it isn't the hero's girlfriend or boyfriend or in a mundane way or via a simple phone call because things like that do happen. Not every death is an event or has deep meaning or is mourned everyday in some deep fashion. Sometimes somebody is just gone.

edit: The level of importance someone has to you in your life doesn't automatically equal some parade mourning or deep despair some of the most meaning ones can be quiet.

[Lukmendes]

I don't know to me it still seems like fridging hinges mostly on opinion. I mean i get the factual implication of because it happens more to females given the demographic of leads in comics, that it can give and should give the appearance of being a problem but in the sense that there needs to be more variety and diversity in what is offered so it seems more like something that just sometimes happens. I mean in essence that is life, somebody dies everyday so whats to say it isn't the hero's girlfriend or boyfriend or in a mundane way or via a simple phone call because things like that do happen. Not every death is an event or has deep meaning or is mourned everyday in some deep fashion. Sometimes somebody is just gone.

edit: The level of importance someone has to you in your life doesn't automatically equal some parade mourning or deep despair some of the most meaning ones can be quiet.

The problem with the trope itself is when someone dies just for the sake of cheap drama for the other character.

It can work, basically any cliché can work if done well, but this is one that can be annoying since it's something hack writers like to use.

And sure, people in real life often die in silly, or sudden ways, that's life, but comic books aren't real life, nor should they try that hard to be, specially if the fridging tries to kill of an established character just to motivate another, or if the character just dies for no reason.

For me, if fridging is killing off a just created character for the sake of motivating another, it's kinda whatever, it can work and make a story interesting, or it can be a hack writer's attempt at making something cool and failing, in this case it's just execution, but if an established character has that role, then it's more complicated, because the story has to be good enough for that death to be worth it, otherwise a cool character died for nothing, just so another character can suffer for 5 minutes, and that world just became slightly smaller, for nothing, and that can hurt more super-hero related stuff since those stories basically don't end.