The Appeal Of Dick/Babs

[AmiMizuno]

I mean Tayolr seems to be making Dick not a good hero. Easily taken out and ambushed. Babs telling how to do his job. She is being to outshine Dick. I mean instead both could easily be rebuilding is Batcave since he made one in his apt. So Tom really needs to show us how he is making Dick a-lister. I wouldn't mind him not winning heartless more of both get badly wounded. Babs is taking charge isn't a bad thing but it doesn't feel even.

It DickBabs does happen okay. I dont think Babs will marry Dick because many think Taylor will have Babs be married to Dick. Dc ruined both characters they could have gotten them married a long time. I mean they could have even put them together in the games but no. If WB and Dc wanted DickBabs we would have been given more media of them being pushed. I don't know kg YJ will even keep them together has much like Miss Martin new relationship, Babs was also a new one. We also have the fact creators said DickZee ba e feelings. The real thing is I think despite them pushing it Dc doesn't care for DickBabs. The aren't a bad ship in itself rather how the characters go ooc. Or the fact they outside the comics aren't the ones pushed. Heck even though she is dating Dick. We saw them put more effort in Zatanna. DickBabs can work but with the way Dc treats them maybe not in cannon. Wonder how future state will change their dynamic

[Spideyvinnegar]

It DickBabs does happen okay. I dont think Babs will marry Dick because many think Taylor will have Babs be married to Dick. Dc ruined both characters they could have gotten them married a long time. I mean they could have even put them together in the games but no. If WB and Dc wanted DickBabs we would have been given more media of them being pushed. I don't know kg YJ will even keep them together has much like Miss Martin new relationship, Babs was also a new one. We also have the fact creators said DickZee ba e feelings. The real thing is I think despite them pushing it Dc doesn't care for DickBabs. The aren't a bad ship in itself rather how the characters go ooc. Or the fact they outside the comics aren't the ones pushed. Heck even though she is dating Dick. We saw them put more effort in Zatanna. DickBabs can work but with the way Dc treats them maybe not in cannon. Wonder how future state will change their dynamic

Ok I don't really expect Taylor to make them marry, I just hope he'll have them finally settle down as a canon couple and stop this "will they won't they" their relationship has been for the past 10 years, it's been been implied so many times by different authors not matter what happen they're still "each others half" so just give it a shot

About dickbabs becoming OOC when together lol that's not true at all, they become OOC when author tries to pair them with other characters, did you see how OOC cecil made babs in #50 literally victim blaming Dick just to push Barbara with Jason Bard ? Don't matters what you thinks about the couple Taylor's Barbara s one of the best we had for quite a time, he really knows how to write her

about arkham games it wasn't DC decision to not have them as a couple lol that was just some real weird idea from WB most likely because they messed up the characters age making dick looks a lot older than both barbara and robin

About Young Justice: are you comparing dick and babs to m'gann and lagoon boy ?
Cause that doesn't really makes any sense from the very beginning we know m'gann don't really likes lagoon boy
Barbara's first appearence in the show is being jealous over dick and artemis, the author confirmed they weren't dating on S1 but barbara was in love with him, then comes the tie-in comics where we get a confirmation their feelings are mutual but babs just won't settle down with Dick cause she knows he ain't ready to commit himself to only one girl, we can assume after Barbara got paralyzed Dick decided to stop being a dog and the two of them finally settled down
I don't really get that "DickZee ba feelings" part what is thay supposed to mean ?

Wonder how future state will change their dynamic

If they don't get together it will just go back to the same will they won't they dynamic

Both Dick and Babs need to move on.

All I'm gonna say is thats not happening, they will never truly move on from each other, look how many different characters DC tried to pair them with in the past years and it just don't works at all in end their feelings for each other are still stronger
Even Castellucci had to admit that

[John Venus]

I think DickBabs is very appealable to people who don't season their food.

Hmm, you may be on to something. I do enjoy seasoning on my food.

I do like my food mild, if I use seasonings at all

[Pohzee]

I definitely saw the appeal of Dick/Babs more when I was reading these comics back in high school. The long budding romance from adolescence seemed pretty compelling. The further removed I am from that, the more limiting it seems. Much like hooking up with former high school crushes actually is. The world is a whole lot bigger than your hometown. They should both be at a point where they are ready to move on.

[Badou]

I definitely saw the appeal of Dick/Babs more when I was reading these comics back in high school. The long budding romance from adolescence seemed pretty compelling. The further removed I am from that, the more limiting it seems. Much like hooking up with former high school crushes actually is. The world is a whole lot bigger than your hometown. They should both be at a point where they are ready to move on.

I always looked at it the complete opposite. Dick and Babs didn't date until they were much older and their relationship felt kind of mature to me. With it being two adults reconnecting after knowing each other for a long time and having had so many different life experiences individually up to that point. They were both very different people than they were when they were younger. It felt more realistic I guess in that way. Where the Starfire romance was a teen romance, especially with all the drama that happened during it, that started when Dick was an actual teenager and it is incredibly rare for you to stay with the person you date as a teen. So when so many fans are desperate for Dick to get back with Starfire it just feels like trying to recapture some teen romance when it doesn't make sense as an adult anymore.

[WonderNight]

I always looked at it the complete opposite. Dick and Babs didn't date until they were much older and their relationship felt kind of mature to me. With it being two adults reconnecting after knowing each other for a long time and having had so many different life experiences individually up to that point. They were both very different people than they were when they were younger. It felt more realistic I guess in that way. Where the Starfire romance was a teen romance, especially with all the drama that happened during it, that started when Dick was an actual teenager and it is incredibly rare for you to stay with the person you date as a teen. So when so many fans are desperate for Dick to get back with Starfire it just feels like trying to recapture some teen romance when it doesn't make sense as an adult anymore.

So they have been pushing the childhood love angle for both? I just feel dick needs something new.

If dick has to be a bat first and for most, fine... but does every part of he life have to be bat related? It makes dick as a character and ip look and feel so limited.

Everything about solo nightwing is bat, bat, bat!!! Why does his love interest have to be a bat also? Should dc go ahead and make all of his closest friends bats also since everything is bat when it comes to nightwing as a solo character.

[Godlike13]

Babs is cool. Same goes for Starfire. So any new love interest he moves on to is has to be equally as cool and appealing to make anyone care. Some normal chick no one has heard of before is boring compared to an iconic Superhero or a Space Princess.

Also do we need to ask obvious questions. Look I understand not liking it, but it’s another thing to pretend to be obtuse to the general state of things. The Bat stuff draws. Like it or not.

What’s more they might as well all of his closest friends Bats because the Titans writers has done a piss poor job in maintaining any of those relationships and Dick as Titan. It’s not fair to blame the Bat for everything. None of the Titans creators has given them any reason not to lean more and more on the Bat.

[WonderNight]

Forget the titans, do something new. If the the titans continue to suck then move on!

[Badou]

So they have been pushing the childhood love angle for both? I just feel dick needs something new.

If dick has to be a bat first and for most, fine... but does every part of he life have to be bat related? It makes dick as a character and ip look and feel so limited.

Everything about solo nightwing is bat, bat, bat!!! Why does his love interest have to be a bat also? Should dc go ahead and make all of his closest friends bats also since everything is bat when it comes to nightwing as a solo character.

I'm probably the most indifferent to romance for him now. I'd prefer him having zero romance at this point because I just don't care anymore. My feelings are that comic book romances are terribly written and fans spend way too much time arguing about them, but if you ask me which romance has the most utility then it is Babs and it isn't close. Like it or not the Batman franchise is the biggest in all of comics and it sells. So for Dick to have an iconic romance that is deeply rooted in the Bat franchise is incredibly important to his character staying relevant, and it is a romance that can fit in a wider variety of stories. It's far from perfect, but as someone that is only looking at it from a utility standpoint you can do more with Babs than any other notable romantic option.

You want to blame the Batman franchise for Dick's problems as a character, but it isn't their responsibility to write him outside of the Bat books. It isn't their fault that the Titans franchise is garbage and hasn't produced any notable Dick/Nightwing stories in over 30 years and generally write him terribly, or that no other franchise, books, or events outside of the Batman office are interested in using him seriously. So it just feels misplaced to be upset at the Batman franchise for his poor showing in other non Batman related stories. To me they are two separate issues.

Sure, it would be great if Dick could actually do things in the wider DCU and be like the JL members, but that isn't going to happen and the Batman office can't control that. DC has made it very clear how they look at Nightwing as a character. In the Batman franchise he is either in Gotham or stuck in some Bludhaven-like city, and outside of the Batman franchise he is stuck in the Titans. That is kind of it. For me it is very frustrating because it is the worst case for both places. With him being stuck in Bludhaven and the Titans. If you want him to do more outside of the Batman franchise you have to get him out of the Titans and move him to the JL or something and shake things up to see if that will lead to some new non Batman related stories, because we know the Titans will never push the character the way you want.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Babs is cool. Same goes for Starfire. So any new love interest he moves on to is has to be equally as cool and appealing to make anyone care. Some normal chick no one has heard of before is boring compared to an iconic Superhero or a Space Princess.

Also do we need to ask obvious questions. Look I understand not liking it, but it’s another thing to pretend to be obtuse to the general state of things. The Bat stuff draws. Like it or not.

What’s more they might as well all of his closest friends Bats because the Titans writers has done a piss poor job in maintaining any of those relationships and Dick as Titan. It’s not fair to blame the Bat for everything. None of the Titans creators has given them any reason not to lean more and more on the Bat.

The problem with the titans stuff not sticking is not the fault of titans editorial but more the fault of bat editorial. Becuase they have first say over the Nightwing character. Nothing Dick does as part of the titans is considered part of bat editorial characterization despite the fact it should be. Dick is the way he is becuase of bat editorial not Becuase of titans editorial. His friendships could very well be maintained if bat editorial would stop trying to tether him to batfam. Batfam content sells yes but at the cost of Nightwing not reaching his potential which is a problem. There is a reason why DC was so scrambled on replacing Dick. Then when they built up Tim drake to be his actual replacement, Dick comming back to bat editorial really shook things up because bat editorial doesn’t want him to take Batman’s place or to have him stand next to him. It’s not really Batman the character that’s the problem, it’s the bat editorial that’s the problem and has been the problem for many characters and writers for years.

But I do agree. I don’t want dick with babs or starfire anymore because it’s so overdone and boring now with zero pay off. Even their afformented weddings were ruined. In elseworlds, their relationships are next to zero. And even in titans content, Dick and Starfire are ever only really portrayed as a one sided crush, sex buddies or just really great co leaders. It’s only really the movies that show us how great a couple they are.

I prefer dick with an entirely new character built up to be just as great or even more great than babs and Starfire. And that’s not that hard to do considering the characterization state both babs and Kory are in. It would need to be a vigilante hero though I’ll agree with that statement. Create a new character, give her a solo series. Cross over with Nightwing. Built up for one to two years and then have them date for another 2-3 and then wedding. Bam Dick gets a new main love interest who is a vigilante like himself with her own world, mythos and rogues gallery to explore.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I always looked at it the complete opposite. Dick and Babs didn't date until they were much older and their relationship felt kind of mature to me. With it being two adults reconnecting after knowing each other for a long time and having had so many different life experiences individually up to that point. They were both very different people than they were when they were younger. It felt more realistic I guess in that way. Where the Starfire romance was a teen romance, especially with all the drama that happened during it, that started when Dick was an actual teenager and it is incredibly rare for you to stay with the person you date as a teen. So when so many fans are desperate for Dick to get back with Starfire it just feels like trying to recapture some teen romance when it doesn't make sense as an adult anymore.

Hmm but Dick and babs are retconned into having that teen romance though? That part of the problem as well. Because now the retconned history is saying it’s always been dick babs since they were kids and that’s not true. Dick and Kory also never truely got together until they were both of age. Dick was around 17/18 when he first got with Kory and I don’t think they got engaged until his early 20s. It was a slow burn. But I do agree that teen romance shouldn’t be something that should be propped up. But neither should retconned romances. I just think people hold on to their head canons a little too much and it leaves little to no room for actual thoughtful discourse on these characters.

I always found it very telling that the same peope upset at the lack of dick Babs in N52, DCYOU and rebrith are the same people who will just casually pass of dicks relationship with starfire like it was nothing. When what’s happening with babs is the same thing that was happening with Kory back in the 90s. It’s a roundabout with his character. It’s one thing to enjoy Dick babs, it’s another to act like it’s been a thing since forever and that his relationship with Starfire was just a passing thing and she didn’t mean anything.

The same can be said for babs too who also had an entire relationship retconned out of existence only for it to come back and be treated like garbage in rebirth. I can’t tell you how many times I had to tell these so called batgirl super fans that Jason Bard was Babs first major and main love interest for far longer than Dick. And his characterization in Rebirth was very poorlly done and was based off of a retcon of his character that happened during a time when Babs herself was being retconned. It just really goes to show how far these characters developments have been ruined for the sake of romance to keep one of them tethered to a place where he is and never was developing as a character even in pre crisis continuity. It took taking dick out of bat editorial to give this character a chance to grow up and be his own hero.

If one truely enjoyed Nightwing (and batgirl) as a character, one would respect both romances for what they are. Doesn’t mean you have to like it, but you have to acknowledge and respect it. That’s one thing I do think the Superman fandom and editorial gets right. Lois Lane and Lana lang are both improtant aspects to Clark’s growth and development. And while there are still shipping wars between them, at the end of the day we can enjoy Clark’s relationship with both due to the greatly done progression between the two relationships (even if there were some retconning involved, Atleast it was done somewhat respectful).

[Confuzzled]

The TT animated generation and the BTAS/DCAU animated generation are pretty much the same (for example, I grew up on both shows).

The animated TT generation and the B:TAS generation are largely the same. I now since I'm one of them.

I'm not talking about older Millennials who grew up with BTAS and caught TT in their teens. I'm talking about younger Millennials and Gen Z who grew up only with TT as BTAS would be before their time. That crowd worships at the altar of Dick/Kori on social media every day, with a devotion that I don't see Dick/Babs fans having.

Nobody came out of the '66 show wishing for more Dick/Babs...

The porn parody would politely disagree.

[Godlike13]

The problem with the titans stuff not sticking is not the fault of titans editorial but more the fault of bat editorial. Becuase they have first say over the Nightwing character. Nothing Dick does as part of the titans is considered part of bat editorial characterization despite the fact it should be. Dick is the way he is becuase of bat editorial not Becuase of titans editorial. His friendships could very well be maintained if bat editorial would stop trying to tether him to batfam. Batfam content sells yes but at the cost of Nightwing not reaching his potential which is a problem. There is a reason why DC was so scrambled on replacing Dick. Then when they built up Tim drake to be his actual replacement, Dick comming back to bat editorial really shook things up because bat editorial doesn’t want him to take Batman’s place or to have him stand next to him. It’s not really Batman the character that’s the problem, it’s the bat editorial that’s the problem and has been the problem for many characters and writers for years.

But I do agree. I don’t want dick with babs or starfire anymore because it’s so overdone and boring now with zero pay off. Even their afformented weddings were ruined. In elseworlds, their relationships are next to zero. And even in titans content, Dick and Starfire are ever only really portrayed as a one sided crush, sex buddies or just really great co leaders. It’s only really the movies that show us how great a couple they are.

I prefer dick with an entirely new character built up to be just as great or even more great than babs and Starfire. And that’s not that hard to do considering the characterization state both babs and Kory are in. It would need to be a vigilante hero though I’ll agree with that statement. Create a new character, give her a solo series. Cross over with Nightwing. Built up for one to two years and then have them date for another 2-3 and then wedding. Bam Dick gets a new main love interest who is a vigilante like himself with her own world, mythos and rogues gallery to explore.

The Titan books has had plenty of opportunities to use Dick. And we seen how that has turned out.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm not talking about older Millennials who grew up with BTAS and caught TT in their teens. I'm talking about younger Millennials and Gen Z who grew up only with TT as BTAS would be before their time. That crowd worships at the altar of Dick/Kori on social media every day, with a devotion that I don't see Dick/Babs fans having.

I say this as someone who is engaging in a shipping debate right now and stans certain ships online, but....worshiping ships is a uniquely online thing that diehards do, not something that those who make up the majority of the audience do. Romances and ships are popular, but not something the average film goer or tv viewer really becomes obsessed with to the point of blasting it online. We shippers are just really loud, but social media makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is. The Dick/Kory worship won't matter all that much if Dick is adapted into media that is purely Bat-related because Kory won't be appearing, but Babs would have a big chance to be a love interest for him in that media. Same will hold true in reverse if he's adapted into Titans related stuff like the TV show

Dick's in a weird position in that he's a key figure in two franchises while DC/WB is doing their "Worlds of DC" thing without one shared continuity in other media. he has a designated "true love" in both IPs, and neither ship is on a Clark/Lois or Peter/Mary Jane level where we can't have other options (and even those two mix it up on occasion).

[Confuzzled]

I say this as someone who is engaging in a shipping debate right now and stans certain ships online, but....worshiping ships is a uniquely online thing that diehards do, not something that those who make up the majority of the audience do. Romances and ships are popular, but not something the average film goer or tv viewer really becomes obsessed with to the point of blasting it online. We shippers are just really loud, but social media makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is. The Dick/Kory worship won't matter all that much if Dick is adapted into media that is purely Bat-related because Kory won't be appearing, but Babs would have a big chance to be a love interest for him in that media. Same will hold true in reverse if he's adapted into Titans related stuff like the TV show

Dick's in a weird position in that he's a key figure in two franchises while DC/WB is doing their "Worlds of DC" thing without one shared continuity in other media. he has a designated "true love" in both IPs, and neither ship is on a Clark/Lois or Peter/Mary Jane level where we can't have other options (and even those two mix it up on occasion).

We're still left with a 20 year+ span of media at this point where Dick/Kori was/is being pushed as OTP. In the 21st Century, there have been more portrayals of Bruce/Babs (brought up in Batman Beyond and Mystery of the Batwoman, shown in The Killing Joke movie, suggested in the Lego Batman movie) than there have been of Dick/Babs (the most prominent of which was supposed to be the Titans show only for it to be used to cement Dick/Kori as endgame; also the only media adaptation so far where both ships appeared simultaneously).