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  1. #76
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I would only want Liar Liar replaced with Dr. Poison. However, if Liar Liar is there to represent herself as a Wonder Girl rogue then I'mless conflicted about her inclusion.

    A Circe/Lord team-up could be a great Wonder Event.
    Eh, I donít see Lord providing anything Circe doesnít already have except maybe technology.

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    Wasnít there a scene in Future State: Wonder Woman #2 where we see a battle between a bunch of Amazons?
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  2. #77
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Eh, I donít see Lord providing anything Circe doesnít already have except maybe technology.

    -

    Wasnít there a scene in Future State: Wonder Woman #2 where we see a battle between a bunch of Amazons?
    If by "team up" we mean Circe turns him into a pig and then sells him to a farm.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    If by "team up" we mean Circe turns him into a pig and then sells him to a farm.
    Better yet, she just cooks and eats him like she did to poor Mikos.

  4. #79
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Lord and Dr. Cyber teaming up could work if they gave Cyber back her massive organization she had from Pre-Crisis. They both have roots in the spy business and both are also related to technological life forms (Cyber is one and Lord is connected to Brother Eye and the OMACs). Otherwise nah donít need him.
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  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I loved Maxwell Lord pre-Infinite Crisis. Since then, he has done nothing appealing to me and has brought no value to Wonder Woman's world. Neither has his daughter Liar Liar. Let Lord rest for a while, redeem him, and put him back in the Justice League's orbit.
    Is that really why people hate Maxwell Lord? I think there's more to it than that, but agree he was at his best in the JLI where he was torn between his ruthlessness and desire to do good.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Has young diana been worth reading? I never paid much attention to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    It’s very slow paced, but the art is nice and it has a lot of Amazons in it. And as mentioned by Sebastianne it will play into the Wonder Woman ongoing story.
    Bought the collection but still haven't brought myself to read it, the first two parts of the backup were like a dose of ZzzQuil for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I hope we see Circe wrangle herself a group of henchmen. Mikos would be fun to come back, and the other Perez-era bestiamorphs. Throw in some existing WW rogues that aren't commonly used and bam! You got a recipe for a good WW event.

    Although my personal dream WW event has Cheetah as the lead villain, but I won't hold my breath.
    Cheetah's had too many chances, I'd hoped her last big story would grow her as a character and as a powerhouse but it sort of landed with a thud. Mikos was intimidating in his own right though, I'd welcome his return and the beastiamorphs but they should be weirder. I mean like a giant walking hand with a tiger's head at the wrist, truly nightmare inducing stuff.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 10-18-2021 at 05:52 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I loved Maxwell Lord pre-Infinite Crisis. Since then, he has done nothing appealing to me and has brought no value to Wonder Woman's world. Neither has his daughter Liar Liar. Let Lord rest for a while, redeem him, and put him back in the Justice League's orbit.
    Can't we say that about most of Wondy's rogues, and don't we say that weekly on this board?

    Also, I do think there's something Maxwell Lord can bring to the Wondy verse, which is something Tamaki touched on in the beginning of her run and then sadly dropped. It's also something Cloonan intimates in the one panel where Diana responds to the reporter asking about Lord. Lord should be a rogue that Diana has absolutely no patience for. He should be the one who she sees as irredeemable and the one who most tests her beliefs of forgiveness and reformation. There is something unique with a Lord/Diana feud. Just because writers haven't capitalized on it in the right way doesn't mean it shouldn't be explored.

    Liar Liar has literally only been in one arc where Lord was the main antagonist and Liar Liar was the secondary. I'm not saying I think she's great, but she hasn't even been given a chance yet. Place her in Wonder Girl's orbit where she has a better chance at a future and trajectory.

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    Can't we say that about most of Wondy's rogues, and don't we say that weekly on this board?.
    I think the difference is that Wondy's rogues at least originate from her book and are invented by her creators, instead of some outsider from a storyline most of us hated being shoved down our throats near constantly. He's taking up page space that could be better used with people who originate from her book, as she has three rogues (Psycho, Deception and Hercules) that touch on similar themes he does, and do them better.

    Like I don't think it's as forced or as universally reviled as Jason (who crashed and burned almost immediately), but I also don't see much positive clamor for Max Lord online that isn't at least somewhat related to the fact that the Mandalorian was playing him (and Pascal could play anybody and be popular). If they keep using Max Lord it's just going to seem like synergy for a movie that wasn't well received and everyone is trying to move on from.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think the difference is that Wondy's rogues at least originate from her book and are invented by her creators, instead of some outsider from a storyline most of us hated being shoved down our throats near constantly. He's taking up page space that could be better used with people who originate from her book, as she has three rogues (Psycho, Deception and Hercules) that touch on similar themes he does, and do them better.

    Like I don't think it's as forced or as universally reviled as Jason (who crashed and burned almost immediately), but I also don't see much positive clamor for Max Lord online that isn't at least somewhat related to the fact that the Mandalorian was playing him (and Pascal could play anybody and be popular). If they keep using Max Lord it's just going to seem like synergy for a movie that wasn't well received and everyone is trying to move on from.
    Aaaand there it is. lol

  9. #84
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Wasn’t there a scene in Future State: Wonder Woman #2 where we see a battle between a bunch of Amazons?
    Found it. Don't know if it has anything to do with this event, but it looks like it does.

    (Edit: Looks like they're not fighting Amazon's though)

    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 10-18-2021 at 06:28 PM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think the difference is that Wondy's rogues at least originate from her book and are invented by her creators, instead of some outsider from a storyline most of us hated being shoved down our throats near constantly. He's taking up page space that could be better used with people who originate from her book, as she has three rogues (Psycho, Deception and Hercules) that touch on similar themes he does, and do them better.

    Like I don't think it's as forced or as universally reviled as Jason (who crashed and burned almost immediately), but I also don't see much positive clamor for Max Lord online that isn't at least somewhat related to the fact that the Mandalorian was playing him (and Pascal could play anybody and be popular). If they keep using Max Lord it's just going to seem like synergy for a movie that wasn't well received and everyone is trying to move on from.
    I get what you're saying. Although from your three examples, I actually think only Dr. Psycho can play a similar role as I do think a man from "Man's World" should be the physical embodiment of what Diana finds the most difficult to see as redeemable and reformable and should be her biggest personal internal struggle and challenge.

    Also, it's just obvious that DC is positioning Max as a Wonder rogue looking at the past 2 - 3 years, and I actually do find it to be a reciprocal fit for Diana and Max.

  11. #86
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Found it. Don't know if it has anything to do with this event, but it looks like it does.

    (Edit: Looks like they're not fighting Amazon's though)

    Hmm, Artemis and Faruka are the only ones I can clearly make out. I think I also see Antiope and Philipus

  12. #87
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    Can't we say that about most of Wondy's rogues, and don't we say that weekly on this board?
    I don't think we can, actually. The past year has been very kind to WW's rogues, as we've seen stories featuring C and D-listers like Blue Snowman, Hypnota, Mask, THEM!, Minister Blizzard, and now Mouse Man, not to mention Dr. Psycho and Gundra in the main book. And just last year we got the Four Horsewomen arc.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I don't think we can, actually. The past year has been very kind to WW's rogues, as we've seen stories featuring C and D-listers like Blue Snowman, Hypnota, Mask, THEM!, Minister Blizzard, and now Mouse Man, not to mention Dr. Psycho and Gundra in the main book. And just last year we got the Four Horsewomen arc.
    I'm honestly and truly am not trying to be difficult, but Dr. Poison's statement that I was responding to was that Lord "brought no value" to Wonder Woman's world. While I'm happy these rogues have shown up in various forms, and you can check the Villians and the Rogue Gallery threads to prove that, is simply showing up adding value? I'm not saying it is or it isn't. However, if it is, Lord has shown up just as much as these rogues just last year when he got an entire story about his relationship with Diana. Granted I actually like Lord, and I didn't care for the story, but that does actually show that he's brought as much value - if not more since the story revolves around him and even expands his mythos in the Wondy World with Liar Liar - if simply showing up is value.

    Also, to keep this on topic, I hope this event isn't simply Amazons fighting Amazons. I hope there actually are villains and rogues and a mastermind behind the scenes pulling strings. It would be great if it was Ares who wanted to start some grand war that could even spill out into Man's World and have greater DCU implications and I love Circe, as well, in a mastermind role. However, I think DC just isn't invested in Ares in a mastermind role in such a large-scale - I assume - event.

  14. #89
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I'm honestly and truly am not trying to be difficult, but Dr. Poison's statement that I was responding to was that Lord "brought no value" to Wonder Woman's world. While I'm happy these rogues have shown up in various forms, and you can check the Villians and the Rogue Gallery threads to prove that, is simply showing up adding value? I'm not saying it is or it isn't. However, if it is, Lord has shown up just as much as these rogues just last year when he got an entire story about his relationship with Diana. Granted I actually like Lord, and I didn't care for the story, but that does actually show that he's brought as much value - if not more since the story revolves around him and even expands his mythos in the Wondy World with Liar Liar - if simply showing up is value.
    Ok, I'll toss in my two cents for a spell.

    Lords gimmick in the Wonder Woman comic mythos is that she killed him. And that's it.

    Two retcons later, in a universe where she didn't kill him, and that's still his gimmick somehow.

    We look at the big three, Cheetah, Ares and Circe. They've been through a lot and they've changed a lot, both in personality what they do for Diana and her mythos. Rebirth was there chance to do that for Max, but they fell back on the same gimmick and now it's too late in that regard. Now he's back to being the guy who's neck she snapped...

    Liar Liar has potential, because she's a young girl and no one wants to see Diana flat-out K.O. a teenager, so you have to get creative. Personally, I think she'd be a better villain for Cassie because I don't really want to see Diana fight a minor.

    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    Also, to keep this on topic, I hope this event isn't simply Amazons fighting Amazons. I hope there actually are villains and rogues and a mastermind behind the scenes pulling strings. It would be great if it was Ares who wanted to start some grand war that could even spill out into Man's World and have greater DCU implications and I love Circe, as well, in a mastermind role. However, I think DC just isn't invested in Ares in a mastermind role in such a large-scale - I assume - event.
    I wouldn't be surprised if it is just Amazons fighting Amazons but it leads to something bigger down the line.

    Or it's a classing hero vs hero plot where the heroes fight each other until they work out there differences, and then they team up for the final villain.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I'm honestly and truly am not trying to be difficult, but Dr. Poison's statement that I was responding to was that Lord "brought no value" to Wonder Woman's world. While I'm happy these rogues have shown up in various forms, and you can check the Villians and the Rogue Gallery threads to prove that, is simply showing up adding value? I'm not saying it is or it isn't. However, if it is, Lord has shown up just as much as these rogues just last year when he got an entire story about his relationship with Diana. Granted I actually like Lord, and I didn't care for the story, but that does actually show that he's brought as much value - if not more since the story revolves around him and even expands his mythos in the Wondy World with Liar Liar - if simply showing up is value.

    Also, to keep this on topic, I hope this event isn't simply Amazons fighting Amazons. I hope there actually are villains and rogues and a mastermind behind the scenes pulling strings. It would be great if it was Ares who wanted to start some grand war that could even spill out into Man's World and have greater DCU implications and I love Circe, as well, in a mastermind role. However, I think DC just isn't invested in Ares in a mastermind role in such a large-scale - I assume - event.

    I think that SiegePerilous02 and Nyssane both fleshed out why I feel the way I do about Lord so I won't rehash their points. Lord isn't a horrible character, he's just not a character I want to see interact with Wonder Woman much any more. Dr. Pyscho is a much better antagonist who takes on any appealing traits that Lord has and accelerates at them IMO. Sure, Liar Liar hasn't had much page time but after her lackluster debut, why does she deserve to get any more? There are plenty of other Wonder-rogues sitting in Limbo that have much more potential IMO like Queen Clea, Osira, and Kung.
    Currently/Soon Reading: Action Comics, Aquaman: The Becoming, AquamEn, Black Manta, DC vs. Vampires, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Nubia & the Amazons, Superman: Son of Kal-El, The New Champion of Shazam!, Trial of the Amazons, & Wonder Woman.

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