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  1. #241
    Incredible Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    [Geoff Johns] was the creative director for DC for years and when he was writing Justice League he was the one who wanted to portray Diana as a sword swinging warrior and Steve as a handler who needed to keep her in line. His use of Cheetah in his run included him establishing Priscilla Rich, Deborah Domaine and 'Sebastiana Ballesteros' were false identities she used in the past and straight up made her a werewolf.

    Yes he has a devotion and love to the silver age but if you look at his stories and see how often he casually kills off concepts and ideas he doesn't like or freely rewrites a concept that doesn't make a favorite of his look cool, then you run into a problem. He will do amazing things for Green Lantern because hes a fan of silver age Green Lantern. You don't see him ever saying anything positive about pre crisis Wonder Woman and it reflects in his usage of her in his run.

    Heck, he wrote both Wonder Woman movies and theres more concepts pulled from post crisis and new 52 than anything else. Oh and that way he had Steve come back to life in the second movie is something hes pulled in the comics a few times but made it permanent
    Johns co-wrote Wonder Woman 1984.
    The first film's screenplay was written by Allan Heinberg (from a story by Heinberg, Zack Snyder and Jason Fuchs)

  2. #242
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    I seriously doubt Johns even cares enough about Wonder Woman to have suggested the Zeus origin.

  3. #243
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    Johns co-wrote Wonder Woman 1984.
    The first film's screenplay was written by Allan Heinberg (from a story by Heinberg, Zack Snyder and Jason Fuchs)
    Johns did do some writing for the film but was bumped up to "producer" credit for the final version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I seriously doubt Johns even cares enough about Wonder Woman to have suggested the Zeus origin.
    Eh, he cared enough to create Jason which was another way of DC trying to further cement Daddy Zeus as part of Wonder Woman's lore.

    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if "Daddy Zeus" was a concept DC brass had been kicking around for years, just New 52 gave them the clean slate opportunity to do it.

  4. #244
    Fantastic Member BrianWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Was it even his idea? I think "daughter of Zeus" just made more sense to the general public at large, than "made from clay and given life".
    We're getting a bit off topic and it's kind of my fault, but this depends on what you mean. The original Zeus retcon wasn't Johns' idea, it was implemented in Azzarello's New 52 reboot. Johns had a hand in the 2017 movie script, and you can definitely see his influence in a number of its scenes, but he's not directly credited as a writer and it's kind of hard to say how much "oversight" he had on stuff like what origin they went with. My completely subjective impression here was that the movie simply went with the Zeus origin because that's what was the comics origin was at the time, and DC/WB wanted to keep synergy with the comics, and so then the filmmakers like Jenkins -- who may not have been all that up to date about the comics stuff -- just went "Well, okay, you comics guys probably know what you're talking about in regards to the comics, let's go ahead with that 'cuz it really doesn't affect the story much" and that was that.

    So how much influence Johns had directly on that decision was very nebulous. Even though Johns wrote a lot of New 52 comics, he has also always been somewhat openly derisive towards the changes implemented by the New 52 and spearheaded DC: Rebirth as a direct effort to revert a lot of those changes. Again, personally speaking, I'd be surprised if he was particularly attached to the Zeus origin, particularly to the point that he's the actual figurehead keeping the current comics from reinstating the clay origin. But then again, as mentioned, he did also create J̵̜̜͕̣̘̾͒̈̀a̶̹͓̗̰̗͑̏̏͂̃͠ͅs̷̱̪̳͂̉̆̈́̕͠o̶͇̺̰̯̜̙̿͗̿̈̍͝ ņ̵̡̼̠̺́́̓ͅ, so it's also not as if he's immune from terrible interpretations of the WW mythos. \_(ツ)_/

    Regarding the question of whether the "daughter of Zeus" origin makes more sense to the public at large, I don't think we can say something like that with any certainty whatsoever. The clay origin had been around for seventy years. It's as much of a mythological origin as being the child of a god, if not arguably moreso, and definitely more iconic.

    Nowadays there are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of superheroes that the public is aware of, with dozens upon dozens of all different types of origin stories for every single one of them. There are probably lots of reasons why Wonder Woman wasn't as popular a character before the 2017 film came out, but I'm going to confidently say that not a one of those reasons could be boiled down to viewers being particularly picky about her being made from clay. If the 2017 film had simply said "She was created by the gods out of clay," I don't think a single viewer would have batted an eye. It's not as if no one liked Wonder Woman before because she wasn't a daughter of Zeus, and then suddenly they realized she was a daughter of Zeus and said "Oh my god, suddenly I like her now for some reason!"

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    And the Variants to Wonder Woman 786 and Trial of the Amazons: Wonder Girl 2:



    What animal is Artemis represented by in the first image? Is it a wolf?

    I imagine Yara's animal is a jaguar.

  6. #246
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWilly View Post
    We're getting a bit off topic and it's kind of my fault, but this depends on what you mean. The original Zeus retcon wasn't Johns' idea, it was implemented in Azzarello's New 52 reboot.
    I might be mistaken, but I vaguely remember reading that certain things like Zeus being the father were set in stone before Azzarello agreed to write the series. Johns at the time was the main DC writer so it is possible that this idea came from him and editors liked it.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What animal is Artemis represented by in the first image? Is it a wolf?

    I imagine Yara's animal is a jaguar.
    Artemis is the wolf.

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    I think using 'made more sense to the general public' is a laughable reasoning when they kept things like
    'air force pilot was given a magic ring by a dying alien whose a space cop who was given his ring by a bunch of little blue aliens and now hes a space cop by right of succession and hes called green lantern because RINGS!'
    or 'so theres these gods who are called the new gods and their the fourth generations of these gods who are always on opposing sides and always fighting one another and the current generation live on new genesis and apokolips and they fight all the time and the kings of both sides traded off their kids and one became a stage magician escape artist living on Earth while the other became a super soldier out to kill his own dad~'

    I could go on but comics in general don't have concepts that make sense to the 'general public' and yet they stubbornly cling to these concepts even when their adapted into movies. Weve had Wonder Womans clay origin for years and in adaptions in the past AND it was so simple it could be boiled down to a couple sentences.

    As for whose idea it was for Wonder Woman its honestly hard to be certain since nobody has admitted to it. However when new 52 happened, Johns and Azzarello were the only ones writing anything with Wonder Woman initially and while Azzarello stated he was following orders, Johns was the creative director at the time which meant he was in the position to make calls like that. So he is a likely suspect.
    And it's not like the public at large has somehow not being exposed to single parent characters:

    -Anakin Skywalker. (though the comics imply that Palpatine may have had a hand in his birth, to anyone whose seen the movies he was a case of virgin birth)

    -Replicants from Blade Runner.

    -Frankenstein.

    The focus isn't on whether the characters had a single or multiple parents but the nature of how they were raised.

    Even in Greek mythology you have the myths of Pandora and Galatea who were sculpted and given life. Any argument about Diana's origin not making sense is bs.

  9. #249
    Fantastic Member BrianWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I might be mistaken, but I vaguely remember reading that certain things like Zeus being the father were set in stone before Azzarello agreed to write the series. Johns at the time was the main DC writer so it is possible that this idea came from him and editors liked it.
    This would be the first I've heard of anything like this. Johns was a hugely important DC figurehead at the time but I've never heard of him dictating the terms of Azzarello's stories. Azzarello himself has always been pretty clear about the Zeus thing being his thing.

    I think what you might be thinking of is that DC in general was pretty keen, at the time, to remake Wonder Woman from the ground-up; editorial at the time leading up to the new 52 was a huge fustercluck in general, there were a lot of moving parts that pushed in all sorts of directions, and the WW side of things might have gotten hit the worst, first with Allan Heinberg's reboot that he couldn't keep up with and barely bothered to flesh out, then with JMS's hilariously bad reinvention of the character that he left for someone else to finish after writing a single arc of it, and then finally with Azzarello given the reigns.

    So they had definitely been throwing around all kinds of ideas to revamp Wonder Woman at the time, each one screwing her origins up a little worse than before lol...but again, it's a bit unclear what part Johns specifically may have played in all this, if any. The only thing we know for certain is that Johns ended up being rather critical of the New 52 and pushed for it to be reverted...though that might also not be saying a lot, because Geoff Johns is also notorious for constantly complaining about things in comics that Geoff Johns himself is responsible for doing.

  10. #250
    Incredible Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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    Trial of the Amazons is the first Wonder Woman crossover event in decades, and DC Comics are going to be sending comic book stores temporary tattoo transfers as promotional items, each representing one of the story's Amazonian tribes.

    The first temporary tattoo, representing the Themyscirans (above centre), will arrive alongside Trial of the Amazons #1 on 1st of March, the opening chapter of the story.

    The second, representing the Bana-Mighdall (above left), will arrive alongside Nubia & the Amazons #6 on the 8th of March, the second installment of the seven-part crossover.

    The third, representing the Esquecida (above right), will arrive alongside Wonder Woman #785 on the 15th of March, part three of Trial of the Amazons.

    Each Trial of the Amazons temporary tattoo will arrive matched to each comic book store's orders of the corresponding issue, rounded to the nearest 25, as the tattoos will arrive in bags of 25. Retailers will need to opt-in to receive the tattoos and additional tattoos will be available to order for a nominal fee in bags of 25.
    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-g...f-the-amazons/
    Author of the Instant New York Times bestselling novel, The Prophets, from G.P. Putnman's Sons.

  11. #251
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    I am the only one that finds It weird that the themyscirans symbol is the same as the guy who enslaved them and is the entire reason why they isolated themselves on the island to begin with?

  12. #252
    Incredible Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Access View Post
    I am the only one that finds It weird that the themyscirans symbol is the same as the guy who enslaved them and is the entire reason why they isolated themselves on the island to begin with?
    only if you associate the lion with the Nemean lion, which is actually one of Hera's symbols.

  13. #253
    Astonishing Member Drako's Avatar
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    Cassie Sandsmark in the upcoming Wonder Girl Trial of the Amazons by Joelle Jones.

    DC: Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Yara Flor, Titans

    My favorite Mangas: One Piece, Slam Dunk, Fullmetal Alchemist, HunterXHunter, Vinland Saga, 20th Century Boys, Monster, Attack on Titan.
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  14. #254
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Cassie Sandsmark in the upcoming Wonder Girl Trial of the Amazons by Joelle Jones.

    Looks like Cassie's going to be wearing some traditional garb .

  15. #255
    Incredible Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    It would be great if the reason for Wonder Girl's cancellation is because Yara dies in this event.


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