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  1. #1
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Default What's the explanation behind Jeph's treatment of WW in Superman and Batman?

    I recently remembered how Diana was treated on that book. The most infamous part is obviously the one where Superman easily overpowered her and killed her with her own lasso. I have seen that image used countless times by sexists on the internet talking about how Diana is nothing next to superman in terms of power.

    What can explain such a disrespectful way to portray the most iconic female in comics, and the girl power icon that was supposed to stand as an equal to Superman?

  2. #2

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    He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?

  3. #3
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?
    So he thought it was ok to treat a female icon like garbage?.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?
    I don't want to accuse Jeph Loeb of being a full-blown sexist without other informations implying that, but he is not a very smart person if he truly thought this would be not that big a deal:



    , and i hope most writers are competent enough, to not write such disrespectful trash just because they think it would fit the story, especially if they are prominent and have won many awards.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    That was such a waste of a good costume.

  6. #6
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?

    I have no doubt the death of his son played a big part into his downward spiral into the man we know him to be today, but I have very little difficulty a man who removed Asian parts on the grounds of "nobody cares about Asian people" is also probably harboring some sexist beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    So he thought it was ok to treat a female icon like garbage?.
    They didn't really respect her as much in the early 2000s, the idea of the "trinity" only coming later. Diana being seen as Batman and Superman's true equal is a relatively new concept. By this point in history, it was Batman>>>Superman>>>>>>Whoever's Book is currently hot>>Wonder Woman>The rest.

    It was garbage. We're in the best era she's ever had in terms of respect from editorial. I know you think it's still not a good time to be a WW fan, but please understand there has seldom been a better one while she was under the same roof as everyone else.
    Last edited by Robanker; 10-17-2021 at 11:49 AM.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?
    The guy who gave us this:

    Surely you jest!


    Also, keep in mind, the same story arc that saw Diana brutalized with her own Lasso (and featured Superman breaking her unbreakable bracelets) also saw Martian Manhunter attacked by a telepath and literally beg for mercy...but Batman was attacked by the same telepath and defeat her because he was really angry.

    Or a previous story arc where Batman one-punched Lady Shiva and Superman beat Captain Marvel off-panel.

    Or back in Marvel he had Thor get his ass kicked with his own hammer by the Red Hulk.


    Jeph Loeb has almost always approached superheroes like a four year old smashing his toys together. And his favorite toys always win.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  8. #8
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?

    I have no doubt the death of his son played a big part into his downward spiral into the man we know him to be today, but I have very little difficulty a man who removed Asian parts on the grounds of "nobody cares about Asian people" is also probably harboring some sexist beliefs.



    They didn't really respect her as much in the early 2000s, the idea of the "trinity" only coming later. Diana being seen as Batman and Superman's true equal is a relatively new concept. By this point in history, it was Batman>>>Superman>>>>>>Whoever's Book is currently hot>>Wonder Woman>The rest.

    It was garbage. We're in the best era she's ever had in terms of respect from editorial. I know you think it's still not a good time to be a WW fan, but please understand there has seldom been a better one while she was under the same roof as everyone else.
    She still isn't respected much. Dceased, injustice, justice league(movie and comic). And of course countless comics from the past years where SM and his top villains usually wreck her.

  9. #9
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    The guy who gave us this:

    Surely you jest!


    Also, keep in mind, the same story arc that saw Diana brutalized with her own Lasso (and featured Superman breaking her unbreakable bracelets) also saw Martian Manhunter attacked by a telepath and literally beg for mercy...but Batman was attacked by the same telepath and defeat her because he was really angry.

    Or a previous story arc where Batman one-punched Lady Shiva and Superman beat Captain Marvel off-panel.

    Or back in Marvel he had Thor get his ass kicked with his own hammer by the Red Hulk.


    Jeph Loeb has almost always approached superheroes like a four year old smashing his toys together. And his favorite toys always win.
    lol, yeah. I'm only dimly aware of what goes on in Marvel but I heard that was a huge breaking point for Thor fans back in the day.

  10. #10
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    She still isn't respected much. Dceased, injustice, justice league(movie and comic). And of course countless comics from the past years where SM and his top villains usually wreck her.
    I agree DC has to improve on their treatment of one of their three golden children, no question. That it still happens (DCeased being the worst example, as that was a Diana played straight rather than Injustice where everyone's crap) is absolute nonsense.

    But we're still unarguably better off than beforehand.
    Last edited by Gaelforce; 10-17-2021 at 01:34 PM. Reason: language, please
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  11. #11
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I agree DC has to improve on their treatment of one of their three golden children, no question. That it still happens (DCeased being the worst example, as that was a Diana played straight rather than Injustice where everyone's crap) is absolute nonsense.

    But we're still unarguably better off than beforehand.
    I don't see much improvement. I will believe it when i see it.

  12. #12
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    The guy who gave us this:

    Surely you jest!


    Also, keep in mind, the same story arc that saw Diana brutalized with her own Lasso (and featured Superman breaking her unbreakable bracelets) also saw Martian Manhunter attacked by a telepath and literally beg for mercy...but Batman was attacked by the same telepath and defeat her because he was really angry.

    Or a previous story arc where Batman one-punched Lady Shiva and Superman beat Captain Marvel off-panel.

    Or back in Marvel he had Thor get his ass kicked with his own hammer by the Red Hulk.


    Jeph Loeb has almost always approached superheroes like a four year old smashing his toys together. And his favorite toys always win.
    Oh, he wrote these?

    So he’s also the guy who had Red She-Hulk beat up Domino and rip her clothes off…

    And the guy who had Red Hulk fight the Lady Liberators (all of Marvels heavy hitting heroines) and they lost because he outsmarted them…

    Yeah, it all makes sense now…
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  13. #13
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Oh, he wrote these?

    So he’s also the guy who had Red She-Hulk beat up Domino and rip her clothes off…

    And the guy who had Red Hulk fight the Lady Liberators (all of Marvels heavy hitting heroines) and they lost because he outsmarted them…

    Yeah, it all makes sense now…
    Loeb is a deeply troubled man. He gets sympathy over what happened to his son, but that doesn't excuse what he channeled that anguish into or what was already evident in his works prior.

    I'm just glad that he's seemingly been moved away from directing the fate of these characters.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    He's just not that good of a writer, and never was. I feel bad saying that considering the family tragedy he went through, but even his earlier work showed the signs that he was all style, not substance. And it just went further down hill from there.

  15. #15
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Loeb is a deeply troubled man. He gets sympathy over what happened to his son, but that doesn't excuse what he channeled that anguish into or what was already evident in his works prior.

    I'm just glad that he's seemingly been moved away from directing the fate of these characters.
    I just wish someone at editorial had him tone it down.

    To write a story where Storm, She-Hulk, Black Widow, Spider Woman, Tigra, Hellcat, Invisible Woman, Valkyrie and Thundra all loose to Red Hulk, (and I don’t care if he had to play dead to do it), that’s on Marvel for not drawing a line.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

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