What's the explanation behind Jeph's treatment of WW in Superman and Batman?

[WonderLight789]

I recently remembered how Diana was treated on that book. The most infamous part is obviously the one where Superman easily overpowered her and killed her with her own lasso. I have seen that image used countless times by sexists on the internet talking about how Diana is nothing next to superman in terms of power.

What can explain such a disrespectful way to portray the most iconic female in comics, and the girl power icon that was supposed to stand as an equal to Superman?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?

[WonderLight789]

He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?

So he thought it was ok to treat a female icon like garbage?.

[Rightoya]

He thought it would fit the story he told and he didn't think it was that big a deal?

I don't want to accuse Jeph Loeb of being a full-blown sexist without other informations implying that, but he is not a very smart person if he truly thought this would be not that big a deal:



, and i hope most writers are competent enough, to not write such disrespectful trash just because they think it would fit the story, especially if they are prominent and have won many awards.

[Primal Slayer]

That was such a waste of a good costume.

[Robanker]

Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?

I have no doubt the death of his son played a big part into his downward spiral into the man we know him to be today, but I have very little difficulty a man who removed Asian parts on the grounds of "nobody cares about Asian people" is also probably harboring some sexist beliefs.

So he thought it was ok to treat a female icon like garbage?.

They didn't really respect her as much in the early 2000s, the idea of the "trinity" only coming later. Diana being seen as Batman and Superman's true equal is a relatively new concept. By this point in history, it was Batman>>>Superman>>>>>>Whoever's Book is currently hot>>Wonder Woman>The rest.

It was garbage. We're in the best era she's ever had in terms of respect from editorial. I know you think it's still not a good time to be a WW fan, but please understand there has seldom been a better one while she was under the same roof as everyone else.

[Guy_McNichts]

Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?

The guy who gave us this:

Surely you jest!


Also, keep in mind, the same story arc that saw Diana brutalized with her own Lasso (and featured Superman breaking her unbreakable bracelets) also saw Martian Manhunter attacked by a telepath and literally beg for mercy...but Batman was attacked by the same telepath and defeat her because he was really angry.

Or a previous story arc where Batman one-punched Lady Shiva and Superman beat Captain Marvel off-panel.

Or back in Marvel he had Thor get his ass kicked with his own hammer by the Red Hulk.


Jeph Loeb has almost always approached superheroes like a four year old smashing his toys together. And his favorite toys always win.

[WonderLight789]

Are we pretending Jeph Loeb doesn't hold some very awful beliefs?

I have no doubt the death of his son played a big part into his downward spiral into the man we know him to be today, but I have very little difficulty a man who removed Asian parts on the grounds of "nobody cares about Asian people" is also probably harboring some sexist beliefs.



They didn't really respect her as much in the early 2000s, the idea of the "trinity" only coming later. Diana being seen as Batman and Superman's true equal is a relatively new concept. By this point in history, it was Batman>>>Superman>>>>>>Whoever's Book is currently hot>>Wonder Woman>The rest.

It was garbage. We're in the best era she's ever had in terms of respect from editorial. I know you think it's still not a good time to be a WW fan, but please understand there has seldom been a better one while she was under the same roof as everyone else.

She still isn't respected much. Dceased, injustice, justice league(movie and comic). And of course countless comics from the past years where SM and his top villains usually wreck her.

[Stanlos]

I recently remembered how Diana was treated on that book. The most infamous part is obviously the one where Superman easily overpowered her and killed her with her own lasso. I have seen that image used countless times by sexists on the internet talking about how Diana is nothing next to superman in terms of power.

What can explain such a disrespectful way to portray the most iconic female in comics, and the girl power icon that was supposed to stand as an equal to Superman?

I can not comment on why he wanted to use the plot points he did use, but I can comment on the work he did to not diss the character. He took note of the message board discussions on OWAW and put in several cues to indicate that the Diana featured isn't the same and had different origins and powers

[WonderLight789]

I can not comment on why he wanted to use the plot points he did use, but I can comment on the work he did to not diss the character. He took note of the message board discussions on OWAW and put in several cues to indicate that the Diana featured isn't the same and had different origins and powers

I fail to see how he didn't disrespect her. And what is OWAW?

[Gaius]

I fail to see how he didn't disrespect her. And what is OWAW?

Our Worlds At War.

[WonderLight789]

Our Worlds At War.

What about our worlds at war? WW is not very good in it. But what's that got to do with jeph's treatment of WW in batman and superman? And this is the first time i see a post suggesting our worlds at war isn't the canon continuity version of WW.

[SiegePerilous02]

Huh, it never occurred to me Cass wasn't in in Hush since I never thought of it being around the same time of her Batgirl tenure. Yeah, that's "interesting" omission giving they included the Q/Microchip rip-off character and in-light of his comments about Asian actors in the Marvel Netflix shows.

Friggin Harold made it into Hush, but Cass didn't at the height of her popularity. Jason made it in and he was dead at that point!

Her absence really does stick out like a sore thumb in hindsight.

This was part of the same issue I believe. Sure doesnt make it any better that he had to kill a WW but I do like the writing of at least having it hit hard for him. But either wait it does show a Superman who will go unhinged if you kill the wrong person.

I hate that a sweet moment like Clark telling Diana how much their friendship means to him is part of this rancid comic.

[Primal Slayer]

This was part of the same issue I believe. Sure doesnt make it any better that he had to kill a WW but I do like the writing of at least having it hit hard for him. But either wait it does show a Superman who will go unhinged if you kill the wrong person.

[Stanlos]

I fail to see how he didn't disrespect her. And what is OWAW?

Our Worlds At War was a crossover where he kind of pooped on her power levels. He engaged fans on the boards, apologized and said he would do better. In the S/B stuff we see him largely make good on this. He put in queues that let the reader know that the Diana we see in the alternate timeline is different from the volume 2 Diana. The different uniform and the absence of the silver bracelets are intentional.

This appearance and the ones where he handles her later are where took extra steps to learn the mechanics of her powers and her gear. And he did make good on it.